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  1. #1
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    New to Nids 2500pt List

    Hey, I'm pretty new to Nids (have played a couple of friendlys with borrowed figures) but want to start collecting properly now. This is just a first try at a list so I know whether I'm on the right track or not, so let me know what you think! any suggestions for how to turn it into a 1000, 1500 and 2000pt list along the way so I know what models to get first would be really appreciated I'd like it to be compeitive but fun to play, main opponent will be a CSM player with a love for tanks, walkers and Abbadon, you have been warned! :p Angel x

    Swarmlord 280pts
    2x Tyrant Guard w. Boneswords 150pts

    2x Hive Guard 100pts
    2x Zoanthropes 120pts
    3x Lictors 195pts

    5x Ymgarl Genestealres 115pts (can I have these even though they are also Elites? I think Dormant is really cool though.....)
    9x Stealers w. Scy Tal 144pts
    1x B'Lord w. Scy Tal, Implant Attack & Acid Blood 95pts
    6x Warriors w. Lashwhip/Bonesword 270pts
    2x Warriors w. Lashwhip/Bonesword 90pts
    1x Tyranid Prime w. Lashwhip/Bonesword & Regen 105pts

    3x Raveners w. Rending Claws 105pts
    3x Raveners w. Deathspitters 120pts

    1x T'Fex w. Rupture Cannon, Dessicator Larvae & Regen 295pts
    1x Trygon Prime 265pts

    Idea would be to place Stealers in scenary along sides of board. T'Fex, HG & Zoans shoot down tanks etc with the Swarmlord & Warriors (1 unit of 6 & 1 unit of 2 + Prime) protecting them. Trygon Deepstrikes and provides synapse for Raveners which do as well, and Lictors which will come up nearby too. Idea is basically to have them attacked from the sides and back allowing me to pick off nasty units earlier rather than waiting for them to come to me. Can also tie up any others with the S'Lord and Warriors.

    Couple of quick questions: what are the rules for a unit joining an existing CC? Is this list a bit too "bitty" and not cohesive enough? Please can someone remind me how Toxin Sacs and other poisoned attacks work, and what does AP "-" mean?

    Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated, thank you for bothering to read! x


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  3. #2
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    You said you wanted this list to be competetive so I wont beat around the bush.

    Your Swarmlord and guard are absolutely fine. Remember if you have the guard in majority cover the swarmlord benefits as well even though he's an mc and normally needs to be 50% obscured as they're all one unit.

    Hive guard are amazing but you want more ideally especially against a tank heavy list. You in fact have a serious lack of anti-tank in your list. Zoanthropes walking are very useless as they'll die before they get in range. They need a spore pod to be effective.

    You cannot take the Ymgarl stealers when you've filled up all your elite slots. They're a good unit but very expensive and fragile, I'd take at least 8 to have some sort of actual punch and use them tactically against the right units.

    Lictors just are not good, more hive guard would be a far better use of your points.

    Stealers don't need scything talons. The only worthy upgrade is toxin sacs for extra rending attacks, that or keep them plain. Implant attack and acid blood are fairly useless on a broodlord, most good instant kill targets are eternal and acid blood wont work that well. If you think there's good targets for the implant go for it however.

    Raveners are just bad, they're not surviable enough nor do they have any punch when they finally get into combat hence they're utterly underwhelming as a unit.

    You can't have a unit of 2 warriors, 3 is minimum. I always do like the idea of a large unit of warriors with bonesword and a prime makes them incredibly deadly, be wary though this unit is still very vulnerable and also rather slow and expensive. Conventional wisdom says they don't work that well because of this but try it out they might surprise you.You could opt for double bonesword+adrenal glands for the same points. Intiative 5 on the charge means you're likely ahead and the extra strength obviously really helps. The prime is also a hq choice, hes not bad in the swarmlord unit either infact as he makes it somewhat of a 'deathstar' unit thats hard to wound due to allocation shenaningans. Not the most effective one though.

    T-fex is a bit unreliable but the best we have at long range so very viable at this points value.

    I don't think your trygon needs to be a prime, you've got plenty of synapse nodes or units that ignore synapse all together and you want to be running with him not shooting really but take it if you think you need it.

    The main key with tyranids especially in lower points is to not overspend on unit upgrades as this can get very costly and to maximise on numbers as you want to present multiple targets to your enemy. Your units in general are incredibly fragile, even the monstrous creatures, so you want a lot of them so some get through. A fully upgraded genestealer is incredibly powerful in combat but dies exactly the same as an unupgraded one.

    So with that in mind you can cut out expensive things like t-fex and the swarmlord in smaller point games, cut out some upgrades and load up on more 'horde' like elements.

    Also you should check out tervigons they're seriously one of our best units and even having one in your army with 10 termagants as a troop choice lets you have a very tough to budge objective holder, that spawns more objective holders/tarpit units and can give your units feel no pain which is huge in making them survive. FNP on the swarmlord unit for example gives you that added bonus against krak missiles which tear you apart otherwise.

    Hope that helps any questions ask.

  4. #3
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    Hi, and welcome to the Tyranids! This army is really fun to play, win or lose, and I find that I have as much fun doing their models and making army lists as playing the actual game. Hopefully you'll enjoy the Great Devourer too!

    Units joining an existing CC follow all the normal rules for assault, with the exception that they don't derp their initiative when charging a unit in cover. Unfortunately, yes, this list is indeed too 'bitty' and not cohesive enough, but we can fix that! Toxin Sacs and other poisoned attacks mean that these attacks inflict wounds on To Wound rolls of the number indicated, regardless of enemy Toughness. In addition, if the attacker's Strength matches or is greater than the enemy Toughness, they get to reroll failed rolls to wound.

    Now, to the list! Let's go down line by line.

    - Boneswords aren't optimal for cost on Tyrant Guard and are usually avoided. The Guard are primarily there to die, with fighting just being a bonus. Unless something catastrophic happened, the Tyrant or Swarmlord it's attached to will provide plenty of power weapon attacks for the both of them. A better upgrade, if you take one at all, is Lash Whips.

    - When building a Tyranid list, a key survival feature is redundancy; meaning take as many as reasonable of certain units so that their roles can still be filled should a unit be destroyed. Thus, either take a couple units of Hive Guard, or a couple units of Zoans, with an odd Elite unit to fill the slots out if you like, but not three different ones at once. You'll still want to always maximize Elites though, and which ones you end up loading up on will depend on army synergy. Lastly, Zoans are very situational on foot-- it's usually best to load them into a Spore.

    - From these Troops and Fast Attacks, I can tell you like your assaults. You must balance your army with shooting elements as well though, or risk having a poor list. Sadly, no, you can't take the Ymgarls if your Elites are already filled out. Take Toxin Sacs on Genestealers rather than Scything Talons. Broodlords don't really need those upgrades; the most you ought take is the talons, only because they're so cheap.

    - I'm no expert on Raveners, but I believe guns are wasted on them. Give them all Rending Claws when you take them at all.

    - Tyrannofex and Trygon good. Prime and Regen... depends. We'll see if you need them in the upcoming list!
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    >Broodlords don't really need those upgrades; the most you ought take is the talons, only because they're so cheap.

    Equally broodlords do benefit from any upgrades the squad itself has but you pay the points for it. Remember the broodlord is an upgrade so you pay for a genestealer and whatever upgrades it has and then you add the points of the broodlord to it and it benefits from those upgrades.

    You cant because of this have a unit of 20 AND a broodlord.

    Its a bit odd and something a lot of players slip up on.

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    Sorry? From the codex, the brood may only take Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs in common as an upgrade. Otherwise, once a you upgrade one model to a Broodlord, it ceases to be a Genestealer, though you still pay for the Genestealer it 'superimposed' itself on. Their Scything Talon upgrades are still paid for separately, and you may leave off one even if you take the other.

    Also, I tried making a list for you, Angel, but realized I didn't know what you'd want to see in your list! The units you chose are a mishmosh of fast, shooty, and assault, so i couldn't really begin to make one without leaving out stuff you might want in there. If you like, browse the Tyranid List Builder thread stickied on the front of the Army List forum. You'll learn a lot, and possibly find a list perfect for you there already.
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    Yeah scything talons are the odd exception that makes it all the more confusing. You can pay for the entire brood to take adrenal glands and toxin sacs, including the broodlord but you can also choose to pay for only the genestealers to have scything talons and not equip the broodlord with them.

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    Thanks so much for all the help its interesting how split people seem to be on Raveners, I have friends who will never make a list without them and friends who can't understand why anyone would bother have tried reworking the list but lost my T'Fex in the process, any ideas how to fit him back in?

    Swarmlord
    2x TG w. Lashwhips

    2x HG
    2x Zoans w. Pod

    12x Stealers
    12x Stealers
    1x B'Lord w. Implant
    1x B'Lord w. Implant
    6x Warriors w. Devourers & LW/BS
    1x Tyranid Primes w. Devourer & LW/BS

    4x Raveners w. Rending Claws & Spinefists
    4x Raveners w. Rending Claws & Spinefists

    1x Trygon Prime w. Regen
    1x Trygon Prime w. Regen

    How would I play the Zoans in pods? Are 2 Hive Guard enough and please can I have more advice on the Raveners? Feel free to tear this list to pieces, as long as what comes out of it is good

    Thank you again, Angel x
    Last edited by diamond_angel; November 2nd, 2011 at 15:16.

  9. #8
    Member Mads's Avatar
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    Better! But still too much assault. At least from this list I can tell you like your Raveners and wish to keep them, and that you don't mind somewhat shootier Warriors. That's a relief because, barring picking up different types of troops, that's where most of your anti-infantry shooting will have to come from. Here's what I'd do for a fun, balanced list, but be advised that it won't be the most competitive because 1) I tried to keep within your apparent unit preferences and 2) I'm not used to working with Raveners and Warriors; to be frank, I still have a great deal to learn in general.

    Anyhow!

    Swarmlord - 280
    Tyrant Guard, Lash Whips - 65

    Tyranid Prime, Dual Bonesword, Scything Talons, Regen - 100

    3x Hive Guard - 150
    3x Hive Guard - 150
    2x Venomthrope - 110

    10x Genestealers, Broodlord w/ Talons (for a total of 9 'Stealers and 1 'Lord), Toxin Sacs - 218
    3x Warriors, Devourers, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon - 120
    3x Warriors, Devourers, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon - 120
    3x Warriors, Devourers, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon - 120
    16x Hormagaunts, Toxin Sacs - 128

    5x Raveners, Rending Claws - 175

    Tyrannofex, Rupture Cannon, Dessicators - 265

    Total: 2001

    ****

    No, two Hive Guard are nowhere near enough. Zoans in pods are played by dropping them beside heavy armour like Land Raiders to destroy them, and then waving goodbye to the unit. I decided against Zoans in pods for this list, as they won't have a lot of forward support where they drop. Also, if Zoans are your only answer to AV12-14, Psychic Hoods will make your life miserable pretty easily, so I went with Hive Guard spam and Tyrannofex tankbusting for this list.

    No guns for your Raveners! If you're Deep Striking them, then guns would be appropriate so they have something to do the turn they come in. Again, in this list you won't have anything dropping in to help take the heat off them; they'll get shot off the board before they can get in assault, where they shine. Hide them in your main army. You want them to run, not shoot, so they can reach an assault target.

    Everything deploys in a blob. Hormagaunts run in front of everything to provide cover to your Raveners and Warriors, who provide cover to your Hive Guard and Venoms and Swarmlord, who provide cover to your Tyrannofex.

    The Tyranid Prime is an all-purpose bullet catcher. Attach him to the Raveners to start with and then disengage when the Ravs run off to do their thing. His other purpose is to attach to the Venomthropes and catch bullets for them as well. I added the Venoms because you have a lot of expensive assets that need protection from Str8 blasts, and you have a fairly small sized army that can stay within the cover bubble pretty easily. Tyrannofex hangs out at the wing, trying to destroy or stunlock heavy armour, or help open up transports.

    Genestealers outflank to take out heavy weapons teams in cover, or to harry enemy rear elements. The rest of the army moves forward every turn, with your Hive Guard shooting transports and your Warriors shooting infantry at every opportunity. When everything is close enough to assault, your Warriors have Rending Claws so that they're still a threat without bumping their cost up too much. Your real beat sticks will be the Swarm Lord and the Prime attached to the Venomthropes.

    I think that about covers everything. Hopefully someone else can look this over and make sure I'm not leading you astray. Hope you like it!

    EDIT: I just realized that you first made a 2500 list, not 2000. In this case, add a couple of Trygons in, with Regen if you wish, but making them Primes will not be necessary. Free up twenty-five points somewhere, and you can afford a second Guard for the Swarmlord. Your 1000 and 1500 lists I will work on later.
    Last edited by Mads; November 2nd, 2011 at 21:34.
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