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I'm having issues at present making a decent apocalypse army to be used mostly for casual games and against ork (mek/swarm) and space marine (vehicle heavy) armies.
At the moment I will need to buy quite a lot of it so feel free to introduce anything. The force allocation chart we will be using is the normal one plus 2 extra elites and HS and one special so:
Fast Attack: 3
Special: 1 (orks have stompa, SM have modded baneblade (accepted after much convincing on owners part))
At the moment I have no idea were to start as it is easily twice the size of any army I've played before. My smaller armies have always been very CC weighted but I've no idea if this will scale well.
The models I have so far, mostly bought in a very good deal yesterday, are as follows:
1x 4th ed hive tyrant (ST/VC)
1x 5th ed hive tyrant (ST/VC)
1x 5th ed tyrant guard
3x 3th ed tyrant guard
3x hive guard
2x 5rd ed zoanthrope
1x 3th ed zoanthrope
16x termagaunts (FB )
9x termagaunts (DEV)
6x warriors (2x ST)
3x warriors (ST/VC)
1x carnifex (ST/CC)
2x carnifex (TLDEV/VC)
Old one eye
2nd ed carnifex
2x 2nd ed zoanthrope
Of the stuff listed the red is what I will probably leave out. As for special units I could use either set specials (red terror/one eye) or try to splash out on a Forge world special (hierodule etc.) but FM models may be impossible for me to get in my country, South Africa, so this could be a poor choice. The list is lacking significantlypoint wise especially in the troops and FA department and needs to be well fleshed out but where and how? All help welcome.
Thanks in advance.
I'm gonna have a go at this.
Recently bought the two IA books with reference to nids, and going up against a stompa and baneblade, you are going to want something heavy hitting. Leaving out any special formations, the best all-rounder looks like the Heirodules. Barbed for long-range, scythed for close stuff and anti-infantry. If these prove hard to come by, consider using Tyrannofexes. You will need to convert these as no official model yet exists, but they are simple enough to build up from a carnifex or trygon base. Using a Rupture Cannon they can tear apart most vehicles with ease and from range. Otherwise zoanthropes do the trick, but they need to get close, or regular fex's but they have to get really really close.
As for Red-Terror, he no longer exists in 5th ed rules, so you would need to clear it with your opponents to use his old rules, but its best not to, with the changes in the game he is no longer all that great. Old one eye, also not that great, if you are taking any special charaters (or unique as they are referred to now), best to use a swarmlord, or Doom or deathleaper.
Also, if you can field a brood of them, do not discount venomthropes. They double the survivability of all your little things within 6", not to mention thier defensive bonuses. with 5 elite slots i'd definately consider it. otherwise your little guys will get mushed by the first apoc weapon that even thinks about firing.
Apart from the super-heavies, if you treat this like a big 40k game most of the same tactics still work, just field more of the same, and use the freedom of the lack of force orgs to use units you'd normally skip past, such as harpies, carnifex broods etc.
I do have a question regarding the way you play apocalypse. Normally the Force charts are just thrown out and you can use whatever you want. Are you playing to one to keep things structured?
Firstly thanks for replying I had almost given up on this thread. The list has changed somewhat. As for my use of force organisation charts you are correct my group of Apoc players have found that incorporating rough FO charts helps to balance the teams a bit more than just fielding everything. As for the list I will go with here it is (Now far more ordered than the last very rough list)
1x Hive tyrant (2xST/wings)
1x Hive tyrant (devourer/VC) + 2 guard
4x hive guard
4x hive guard
3x zoanthrope in spore
3x zoanthrope in spore
1x trygon prime
1x trygon prime
If the Hierophant is too hard to find (availability and wallet) I think I will sub it with an appropriate sized plastic dinosaur (Just to see the look on peoples faces). Good call on the venomthropes, I imagine 10" blasts won't do gaunts any good. Thanks again for your input
No worries, few pointers and quesstions on the revised list,
1) Hive guard come in broods of up to 3,
2) 27 raveners - despite having a lot of attacks, they are too vulnerable to ID with T4. even in normal 40k they could blow in a single blast, and if they DSing there is still a high risk vs the expected return. Perhaps use a brood of gargoyles[20-30] to help screen them from fire.
3) Would you be fielding the tyrants with Hive commander? (only need one since they dont stack)
4) What upgrade (if any) would you be fielding on the various gaunts and stealers? definately recommend toxin for the stealers, and either both AG and toxin or neither for the gaunts. Gants dont need it since they can inherit them from the tervigon.
5) on the above point, only 1 tervigon? dont forget they have a kick-ass psychic power, not just their termy factory. in fact just today mine killed a deamon prince
6) with yoiur snd tyrant, Old adversary? also why twin Dev+VC and not either stranglethorn or dual twin dev's?
otherwise it looks nicely balanced, and competitive, you certainly do not lack for anti-tank. For such a size game I would normally want to use units that I normally ignore, such as biovores, carnifex broods, and mass-warrior swarms, but thats more for fun then to win. Guess you can always do that if your playing betwen friends. But Hive commander is a must for at least one of your HT's (winged one most like). If you were to team him up with the swarmlord rather than the other HT thier bonuses to reserves stack, meaning you'd be garunteed turn 3 reserves, and turn 2 on a 2+.
Waagh rookie mistake on the Hive guard, sorry I seem to be spending too much time with pen and paper and not much with the codex :p. In addition to that I'll replace one squad of raverners with one of gargoyles. As for the hive tyrants: Flying one 2x ST, wings, HC, paroxysm, leech essence (and maybe indescribable horror) and other one 2x tl devs, old adversary (only have VC/DEV as that is what is on the model now). AD + T for the gaunts. T for the stealers. I may take one 30 squad for the stealers and one 30 squad of gaunts (a bit overkill but whatever) and take a second tervigon and a second squad of gants but we shall see about those possibly absent modding skills of mine. Anyway all that is left is to mod and see how it goes.