[1750] Biel-Tan - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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Thread: [1750] Biel-Tan

  1. #1
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    [1750] Biel-Tan (Eleusian Warhost)

    ***edit***
    see the last few posts in this thread for the most up to date armylist to critique, thanks!
    ***/edit***


    this is my first attempt at making a list, and it includes the core of what I want my army to have and is made up with the fluff I've posted here: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ad.php?t=43647 (my army's fluff v0.1!) in mind. the strategies involved should be pretty apparent from the list composition. anyhow, ideas of what to add or minor changes would be great.

    Farseer w/ Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol, Ghost Helm, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, and Spirit Stones, Psychic Powers "Fortune", and "Mind War"
    Howling Banshee Exarch w/ Shuriken Pistol and Executioner
    .....Howling Banshees ( 8 ) w/ Power Weapon and Shuriken Pistol.
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Star Engines, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults

    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Biting Blade, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Crushing Blow, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (9) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Star Engines, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults

    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Scorpion's Claw, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (9) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Star Engines, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults

    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field

    1750pts

    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 10th, 2005 at 22:06.

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  3. #2
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    anyone have comments/criticisms/etc?

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    It seems like you don't have enough infantry, or enough meat to soak up fire. You could maybe get some swooping hawks as they could be a distraction. Get rid of a Falcon, and put in a wraithlord, so you have a fire magnet, and maybe an avatar with banshee exarchs to take out tough targets.

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    LO Zealot Addoran's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of stealth to infiltrate? If it is, why have you given all your infiltrators a transport vehicle?

  6. #5
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    Farseer w/ Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol, Ghost Helm, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, and Spirit Stones, Psychic Powers "Fortune", and "Mind War"
    I would ditch spirit stones, both sets of runes, ghost helm, and mind war. Overall, he's way too expensive. Since he'll be accompanying the scorpions into combat, he doesn't need mindwar and the other stuff just adds up
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Star Engines, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults
    Ditch the star engines. You won't need them. 24" will get you whereever you need, since the banshees have a charge range of 15" guaranteed (deploy 2", move 6", fleet 1-6", charge 6").
    Never take star engines on anything in this army.
    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Biting Blade, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Crushing Blow, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (9) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Star Engines, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults
    Okay, you can't use stealth if you're in the tank. Also, biting blades aren't worth it. They're nice in a few situations, but far and away, the claw is better. take the claw and ditch both powers
    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Scorpion's Claw, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (9) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Good, but again you can't use stealth
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    You've got one too many of these. Ditch one, and possibly replace it with a pair of warwalkers. Also, the army could use some vypers (split into as many squads as possible).

    Overall this is good, but you have way too few models, and you're relying on those tanks to survive far too much. Get a few support tanks (vypers or warwalkers) into the army. I'd actuallly suggest skipping the warwalkers, on second thought, because a skimmer theamed army would be really cool.


    It seems like you don't have enough infantry, or enough meat to soak up fire. You could maybe get some swooping hawks as they could be a distraction. Get rid of a Falcon, and put in a wraithlord, so you have a fire magnet, and maybe an avatar with banshee exarchs to take out tough targets.
    I'm sorry, but I must thoroughly disagree. First, swooping hawks are NOT the right choice. They're horrible. If you want some nice distracting troops, go with spiders, although I wouldn't suggest either.
    Don't get a wraithlord. It won't suck up fire since it'll be too slow. A smart enemy will leave it till it doesn't matter.
    Finally, the court of the young king is NOT a good option. It looks nice, but it desperately needs some meat shield models to keep it alive. Bolter fire can take down 300 points in a single volley.

    EDIT: Okay, I've checked out your fluff, since posting. Honestly, it's nice, but it is only going to restrict it. Every one of those rules hurts this list, except the wave serpent one. Ditch them all. Eldar, as a race would have as few rules governing their way of fighting, as possible, so that they could be ready for every situation. Also, if your farseers were all amazingly powerful, we would have heard of the craftworld before now. I woud suggest ditching that part of the fluff altogether.
    Last edited by TheWamp; August 8th, 2005 at 08:31.
    You have just recieved the Amish Computer Virus. Since the Amish don't have computers, it is based on the honor system. So please delete all the files from your computer. Thank you for you cooperation.

    Votewar 40k Mk1- 2nd Place
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    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    hey wow! it's like christmas, thanks for the replies :p

    Yes, I'm totally going for a skimmer based army, I love the falcon/serpent chasis and I'd love to see 5 or 6 of em on the table, I think that'd just be beautiful.

    the whole idea of the biting blade is to add in some variety. Eldar have, I find, a very few options within the aspect warrior choices and I want each squad to feel a bit different than the next, since I have 2 scorpion squads, I want to have different feels to each of them..I realize that the biting blade is not as powerful as the scorpion's claw, but I want it to add some character to the list. this list is very cookie-cutter-ish already and I want to keep some variety in it however possible as I'm not a big proponent of cookie-cutter armies.

    that's the only point I can really defend in all the critiques haha. all the rest are really good and valid points, I'm more likely to add vypers than warwalkers to keep with the whole mechanized and quick moving theme. I want the whole army to be able to move at the same rate otherwise it doesnt really fit the feel of a cohesive battlefield 'unit' that sticks together fight after fight and is always the same Eldar warriors fighting side by side with eachother. for example some warwalkers would be reinforced by my army but would not really find a home as a commonly used part of the army as a whole. Vypers look OK..I'm not totally pleased with how they look, but I could get used to them. Speeder Bikes I actually like better..I might add in some of those but really I'm taking a hit in the firepower dept. if I do that, I think.

    Swooping Hawks would fit with the theme but I'm not too impressed with them as a unit..they seem really weak, with only S3 guns, yes, assault 2 with great range, but really, the anti troop is going to come from the hand to hand units. still they'd do well vs nids and whatnot where anti-light troop firepower would do well, and as an exarch delivery system that can turn out OK I'd guess.

    The Farseer, yes, is pretty tooled up right now, but I wanted him to be really fluffy, a powerful farseer charged with leading a powerful army to battle thru critical junctures in the Craftworlds path to it's profound destiny.

    will take off the star engines all the way around. good point.

    as to stealth when mounted..ok, cant combine and deploy separately hmm ok, will have to rethink this then. I might do squads of 6 scorpions so they can infiltrate or deploy in a position to just load up into the falcons for transport, as this is the flexibility I really wanted with them anyways.

    as to the comment that the wamp made about ditching the uber-farseer portion of the fluff, as I addressed in my fluff thread, I agree with that idea that uber-farseers should not be required, so I'll think about toning my farseer down a bit. also with the profoundly psychic nature of the Eldar, keeping a whole Craftworld secret from the race, especially with such powerful Farseers acting to guide the Craftworld and it's colony worlds to such a profound destiny would be too hard to conceal. I was thinking more in human terms where concealing something is easier since not many can literally read minds :p with eldar this is totally different.

    I've got a big fluff overhaul coming, I can see that, but I agree, the farseer shouldnt be required to be so buff.

    thanks for the input, keep it coming!
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 8th, 2005 at 10:32.

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    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    here's the core of my army, scaled back and tuned thru the advice you all have given me so far. Please advise on good ways to expand this, note I'm going for a mechanized theme, so I want a fast moving army in the end (no warwalkers/wraithlords)

    Farseer w/ Shuriken Pistol, and Close Combat Weapon; Psychic Power "Fortune"
    Howling Banshee Exarch w/ Shuriken Pistol and Executioner; "Acrobatic"
    .....Howling Banshees ( 8 ) w/ Power Weapon and Shuriken Pistol.
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults

    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Biting Blade, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Crushing Blow, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (5) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field

    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Scorpion's Claw, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (5) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field

    Ranger Squad (6) w/ Ranger Long Rifle, Shuriken Pistol, Infiltrate, Move Thru Cover, Cameleoline
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field

    1340pts

    the whole theme is the army sends a falcon "out on patrol" which is really responding to an identified threat that will be engaged in a while, so the falcon drops off the rangers who infiltrate into position the striking scorpions are brought to the battlefield in the same manner, maybe the "patrol" is 3 falcons, all dropping off the infiltrators to get to their positions, but the scorpions can start the game with their falcons too so it depends on the whole pre-game patrol fluff idea as to how the infiltrators get to the battle and are included in such a mobile army as cohesive elements to the list (in other words I'm just showing how everyone has a ride in the army putting the falcons with the striking scorpions and rangers)

    anyhow, I'd like to add more, should I go for wave serpents with more troops? if so, what kind? should I do Vypers or jetbikes? swooping hawks I'll need to be sold on, so if you think they're the answer sell me!

    anyhow thanks for the input, this army is coming out of it's cookie-cutter mold with all your aid!

    I'm really low on infantry at this point, but I really dont want to add any more duplicate squads. I want to have more scorpions than banshees though, as I think scorpions are more universally useful. I'm actually thinking of adding some shooty-ness to the list infantry wise but 22 hand to hand models just doesnt seem like enough to win the day

    I'm actually considering the swooping hawk squad to reinforce hand to hand but maintain some shooty ability too..such would be good vs orks and whatnot .. these guys could add some versatility to the list and bump up the infantry model count. the only bad thing is their expensive cost. fluff-wise they could serve as 'scouts' for the main force, flying high above, guiding the army to the battlefield, and swooping around to make their approach to the battlefield via deepstrike rules.

    vypers seem cool, and look pretty good, but armor 10 open topped is just painful. I can see alot of vyper wreckage littering any battlefield I employ them on with my farsight :p

    eldar jetbikes seem pretty decent. they'd add some T4 3+ armor save infantry that was super mobile and could have a warlock along with to give some minor benefit, though they dont seem to be powerful enough to make a real dent in any battle.

    advice would be appreciated on all this rambling!
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 8th, 2005 at 11:07.

  9. #8
    Member Super Unknown's Avatar
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    Farseer w/ Shuriken Pistol, and Close Combat Weapon; Psychic Power "Fortune"
    Howling Banshee Exarch w/ Shuriken Pistol and Executioner; "Acrobatic"
    .....Howling Banshees ( 8 ) w/ Power Weapon and Shuriken Pistol.
    Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stone, Twin Linked Bright Lances, and Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults
    I would tend to put the Farseer in the with striking scorps so fortune could be better used. Also I would recommend replacing a SS Falcon with a wave serpent and spend the extra points on more SS. Don't worry, you have heaps of heavy weapons left on the other nearly industable falcons.

    Striking Scorpion Exarch w/ Scorpion's Claw, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster, Stealth
    .....Striking Scorpions (5) w/ Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Mandiblaster
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    Units mounted in falcons is a bit dodge IMHO. The falcon has long range fire power, you don't want to be rushing a 200+pt tank toward the enemy to unload only 6 SS. Running the SS is also not great b/c they have no Fleet of foot. Maybe invest in yet another wave serpent insted of a vyper. A wave serpent fills both a transport and fire support role for slightly more than 2 vypers.


    Ranger Squad (6) w/ Ranger Long Rifle, Shuriken Pistol, Infiltrate, Move Thru Cover, Cameleoline
    Falcon Grav-Tank w/ Pulse Laser, Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, Star Cannon, Spirit Stone, and Holo Field
    The mounted Rangers is a good idea if you want to just keep the theme going. Unload them in quick or infltrate.

    You have got the idea with fast attack. Don't take jetbikes currently as they far too costly because they used to be fast in 3rd edition. Vypers are the best "bang for your buck" maybe with a star cannon. I have even seen 2 Shrukin Cannons which ripped through non-power armoured foe.

    Swooping hawks don't do so well. I can think of heaps better point uses. like 3 guardians for one swooping hawk (i know u have a theme but it demonstrates my point). i would go for warp spiders, high recommendations coming at me from all directions 'bout these.

  10. #9
    Simple Green. Emp.'s Avatar
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    *Cough* *F*** the Farseer* *cough* *Phoenix Lord is more fluffy for BT* *cough*

    ~Also, if you're going to use 3 Falcons, atleats have something to put in them otherwise they are a waste (IMO). Otherwise your list looks fine to fit your fluff. Maybe put on a few more Bright Lances because you need some anti-tank. (2-3 is fine)

  11. #10
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    phoenix lords require permission and I'm not really a fan of going that route, other than that, that would be a great idea though

    I'm thinking of ditching alot of my fluff-based special rules as I'm seeing that they are, indeed, restricting my armylist too much. cant post right now, but will definately think about it as I tool around doing errands and will post when I return.

    all told, I'm craving more twin bright lances which means going back to wave serpents

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