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Okay guys, i got an upcoming game at my local hobbytown USA, its gonna be my first game as Tau(and only my second game ever, firsttime was a game using my friends space marines, back in the days of late second to early third) aynway, its going to be a 1000 pt megabattle game, and I KNOW for a fact that necrons, dark eldar, tyranids, and the lost and the damned are going, and possibly armored companies, but keeping in mind that im going to be going up against just about every army there is(possibly) what say you about this list
Shas'o + plasma rifle + fusion blaster + multi tracker = 108
Shas'el + plasma rifle + fusion blaster + multitracker = 83
shas'ui + fusion blaster + missile blaster + multitracker = 61
3 x 12 firewarriors = 360pts
13 kroot + shaper + armor save + pulse rifle = 130pts
Fast Attack: 192
2 x 8 gun drones = 192
Heavy Support: 160
Hammerhead + railgun + SMS = 160
total: 950 OR 986
so waddya all think? and choose one of the two HQ elite combos for me please, i am lost as to what to take, if i take the Shas'o i will have a single very powerful character(and a lot of extra points for additional wargear, taht i havent listed here, just in case) but if i take the shas'el i have a slightly less powerful character, but i can take an additonal crisis suit, and i will have less points for extra stuff.....
now you see my dilemma?? so wadday all think, and if you think this list sucks rotten eggs, please tell me, be HONEST, VERY HONEST, AND BE HARSH, help me make this the best list possible, if you feel like altering it, then please tell me what to change, i think however that this list(regardless of hq/elite) is rather competitive, but i dont know much
wow wats a guy gotta do to get some attention round here?
oh did i mention i need your expert opinion by sunday
Last edited by chaos0xomega; August 11th, 2005 at 04:58.
Umm... I'm not really sure what to tell you.
Okay, here goes...
First, you only have 1 Hammerhead, and no other real anti-tank. The Hammerhead doesn't even have any wargear, although you have points to work with, so I assume you wanted advice on this.
I like the Rail/SMS combo, so long as you have a Multi-tracker, Target lock, and Decoy Launchers. All of these are a must have for a Rail/SMS HH, IMO.
As for anti-tank, you have a ton of Fire Warriors and Gundrones, which can take out side or rear armor of a lot of things...but wow do you have a lot. I don't think you will be running into a shortage of men...I would suggest taking out one FW squad and selecting the HQ and Crisis Elite, along with 2 MORE Crisis. Thus you are looking at this:
1 Crisis HQ
3 Crisis Elites
2 FW Squads
2 Gundrone Squads
Kit the Crisis Suits out for general/anti-tank duties. I suggest deepstriking the Gundrones since you have 2 full units, which could turn out awesome so long as you are willing to use them as distractions/sacrifices.
Alternatively you could go for an Ethereal and keep all your FW's. Pick up another kitted out Hammerhead for anti-tank duties if you go this route.
In general, you have a very odd, but appealing list with a whole in the anti-tank area. This simply NEEDS to be filled, and I don't suggest leaving that up to a sole Crisis Commander.
Sig by:Knape, The Celestial, and Marlinspike, thanks guys!
so should i drop the kroot? btw i onlyhave 3 crisis suits at the moment, so yea, but i could do the shas'o and bodyguard, with missile pod and fusion, would that help? and i intended to fix up the hammerhead with what you said before(multitracker, target lock, and disruption pod) but i could only choose one if i went with teh shas'el, i also unfortunatley only have 1 hammerhead at teh moment, however i do have a conversion i did, not sure if i could proxy it as a hammerhead(its about the same size, but its a walker) it has 2 burst cannons and an ion cannon, ill have to ask about the more general rules and such tomorrow, but are you sure i need another HH??????? i always heard that 1 tank in a 1000pt list was rare, usually because of their heavy costs, and the need in most other armies for other things, anyway, so far all waht i know about my opponents is that 1 of the nid players is going to have a genestealer heavy army and a very expensive cc carnifex(250 - 260 pts), perhaps the ionhead is in order to help me pop the fex?? perhaps i can take a shas'el as an independent char. and taht would be the lone crisis suit in my army, and then the two HH's? waddya think of taht??
also if i got to choose which army to set up opposite of, which do you think would be my best bet(and remember, when you give me your answer consider every army in existence first please!)
oh yeah and about them kroot......(just making sure you guys remember heheehh)
Originally Posted by chaos0xomega
Hammerheads Are Your Friend.
Hammerheads are generally considered one of the (if not THE) best tanks in the game. They're fast, maneuverable, durable and rediculously well-armed. They're probably the best tank-hunter vehicle in the game and when they run out of enemy armor to pop, they can switch over the Submunition rounds and put some serious hurt on infantry as well. Their secondary weapons are either excellent point defense (Bursts) or a high-volume harasser that doesn't require LoS (SMS).
O'Dev'n is right: there's no such thing as too many Hammerheads.
For a long time I relied on Broadsides as my primary Heavies, but they're simply not mobile enough to fulfill their role as tank hunters. I wised up an bought a pair of Railheads, and the 88s have barely come out of the case since then.
Plus, y'know what? "Hammerhead Gunship" just sounds so cool. What's not to love?
Don't drop the Kroot!
If anything, I'd actually make the squad bigger. If you need to, drop the Shaper and spend his points on three more Kroot. The Pulse Rifle on the Shaper is a nice trick to have up your sleeve (I've knocked down Landspeeders with mine), but tell me, is that really worth 26 points? In a bigger game, I'd say go for it, but under about 1500, you'll get more mileage out of more basic Kroot.
If you need to drop something, drop a squad of your Fire Warriors of your Drones. You've got LOTS of both, and that's really more than you need in a game of this size. I CAN field four full units of FW, two big units of Kroot, and three full squadrons of drones, but that doesn't mean I do.
Kroot can be an amazingly durable unit if you get them into a deep enough patch of woods, and they are excellent light harassers and riflemen -don't let the three attacks on a charge fool you, Kroot are NOT assault specialists. They are only as tough as a normal human and very lightly armored, so they'd better wipe out their enemy on the first round, or they're not going to walk away from the combat at all.
Buy More Crisis Suits!
You mentioned that you've only got three Crisis Suits. You have three, so you might as well use all of them. That's a commander and a pair of Monat Shas'ui to do with as you please. They are fast, tough, well-armed and reasonably accurate and you should definitely equip them for maximum versatility.
You seem to like the "Helios" (Plasma+Fusion) combination, which I know many people use to good effect, but I might also suggest fielding the "Fireknife" configuration, which is a Plasma Rifle and a Missile Pod.
This loadout on your suits gives you the best range of target options: the Plasma Rifle is an excellent Marine/Necron/Nob/Aspect Warrior killer and the Missile Pod, in addition to being long-range and fast firing, can potentially crack all but the heaviest tanks.
Keep the Multitrackers. I should have to tell you that.
Also, consider adding a Shield Generator to your commander. Even as an IC, he may find himself the target of attacks, and the Shield will allow him to survive tangling with whatever antitank weapon is sure to be trying to draw a bead on him. My own Shas'O never leaves the Manta without one, and it's saved his skinny blue butt many times.
Is The Better Stat Line Worth It?
That's what you have to ask yourself about your Commander. The Shas'O has quite an exceptional stat line, but he misses the one critical stat: Toughness. He can still be insta'd with a Krak missile, so all those wounds mean nothing if your friendly neighborhood Devvies line up a shot on him.
Personally, for your list, I would go with a Shas'el. He is still a very capable warrior in his own right without being too expensive. He leaves you with enough points to buy what you need (another Crisis Suit, more Kroot, Stealth Suits if you have them) and trick out your Railhead a bit but still gives your army a capable commander.
If you absolutely must put togther a highly mobile, hard-hitting unit to bounce around the field, try teaming your 'El up with a Gun Drone squadron. If he's got a Target Lock, that allows him to still engage his enemies of choice while the drones mop up or pin whatever threatens him.
(it's all about) Location, Location, Location!
It's true for any army, particularly for the Tau. If you have your choice of who you set up opposite, look for a slow, infantry-heavy army (Gray Knights on foot) or one that has a deficiency in long-range combat (Battle Sisters). Remember, he can't hurt you if he can't hit you.
If you're up for a little cat-and-mouse, set up near an Eldar player and let your Railhead play tag with his Bright Lances. His "above-12-as-12" versus your "AP 1 auto-pen" is always interesting.
If you can't control who you set up against, then there are ways to deal with whoever you end up across from.
If he's Marines, CSM, Necrons or some other small-but-tough army, get in there with those Plasma Rifles and have fun. Target assault specialists, jump packers and transports first, and then clean up the rest later.
If he's Orks, Nids, infantry Guard or another swarm army, let your Pulse weapons and Railhead submunitions go to work. Use your Crisis suits to harass whatever armor he has, but don't let them get distracted killing Guardsmen or Boyz.
If he's Ravenwing, Dark Eldar or another ultra-mobile force, remember that his vehicles and transports are going to be almost all lightweight, open-topped, or both. Pulse Rifles can kill Landspeeders and Raiders. Your top priority is to take out his transports. Against Ravenwing or other bikes, use your Railhead and Crisis suits to try and draw his forces away from your fragile Fire Warriors, and don't hesitate to use Carbines to pin him down.
If he's Mech Guard, Mech Tau or otherwise tank heavy, make protecting your Railhead and Missile-armed Crisis suits your top priority. Have your suits gang up on his light and medium vehicles -overkill is better than no kill- and make sure your Railhead takes down enemy Vanquishers, Hammerheads and other such nastiness as quickly as possible.
If he's Eldar, mixed Guard, Static Tau or another balanced army, concentrate your firepower on the weakest point in his lines and try to force him to engage you piecemeal while you hit one of his units with everything you've got.
..hope that helped. I'll probably look at it tomorrow morning and realize it didn't make any sense at all, but I'll worry about that when it happens...
Last edited by Straylight; August 11th, 2005 at 10:49.
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WOAH!!!!! that was a long post, ok let me take this in stride.... with an updated list!!! YAY!!!!
Shas'el + plama rifle + fusion blaster + shield gen + hw multi tracker = 108
2 x shas'ui + fusion blaster + missile pod + multitracker = 122 (should i take these in seperate squads of 1 each or put both in the same squad?)
4 x 6 firewarriors = 240(same as 2 x 12(one less squad then before), is this a good idea, to break up my squads into squads of 6??)
13 Kroot + Shaper + armorsave + pulse rifle = 130(unfortuanately i dont have any more kroot so i gotta make do with this)
Fast Attack: 192
2 x 8gundrones = 192
Heavy Support: 180
Hammerhead + Railgun + SMS + disruption pod + multitracker + targetlock = 180
alright looks like i got 28 points to work with, i can upgrade the 'el to an 'o or i can spend them on 2 of my FW teams by bonding them or perhaps making them shas'ui instead?? or is there something else i havent noticed that i can spend these points on that would be more worthwhile?
Never Bond. Never ever ever. much better to buy the shas'ui; the tau need the extra leadership point just to put the dice in their favour when rolling a test. i would also combine the units into one; even though it may lose mobility every squad can have its necessary shas'ui.
i would also dump the shaper; he wastes points which could buy three more kroot giving one more cc attack (i think). imo the armour save is a bit of a waste as well: 6+ rarely succeeds. again, buy more kroot with the points.
pertaining to comments about shas'o, never bother with one: the only stat increases worthwhile are BS and W (he shouldn't be getting into cc) and 25 points is too much for those.
i cant drop the shaper, i mean i could but im outta kroot models, and i havent gotten my extra crisis suits yet, that i was gonna use as my versa-suits(i was gonna use the magnets on them so i could switch out the weapon systems and what not) besides, fusion is cheaper then plasma, and can still take out those pesky powerarmored and terminator armored opponents, also on the topic of the kroot, a 6+ save is better then no save in my book, even if it means ill fail 5/6th of the saves(or something awful like that) at least the kroot would be able to survive, some of them anyway, and one of my long time tau buddies, who rarely loses, says that a shaper with a plasma rifle is a big shcok to opponenets some times, especially against tanks, because they usually forget that the shaper has the rifle, and he ends up having a better chance against those damned tanks, then the rest of the squad
In case you havent figured it out already, im a bit model poor, all what i have is 36 firewarriors, 6 pathfinders(2 with rail rifles) a devilfish, 16 drones, 13 kroot, including the shaper, 3 crisis suits(with the above stated configuration), a hammerhead, and i think thats it....... so i cant do a lot of the stuff you guys are telling me to...
Fusion is cheaper than plasma? Not outside 12". Oh, but inside 12" you say? Lets see, 12p per shot, vs 8p per shot. Plasma wins again.
6+ save is better than no save? What book you read? I've got this calculator here, it tells me something different. That is, in combat:
Kroot without save > Kroot with save (equal points)
Of course, getting shot at, 4+ cover save is better than both so that doesn't matter. And 6+ armour save doesn't help when you're trying to shoot the enemy, you'd rather more guys again. If it has to be more of other things, instead of kroot, then so be it.