[1500]Biel-Tan - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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Thread: [1500]Biel-Tan

  1. #1
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    [1500]Biel-Tan

    ***edit***
    see the list nearest the end of the thread for the most current version of the list to critique, thanks!
    ***/edit***

    well I've finished tweaking things in my list and have some room to play with to bring the list up to 1500pts or so. I'm interested in your opinions as to what I should change in the list I already have, and what I should add to the list to grow it to larger point levels. anyhow, here's what I've got so far, thanks in advance for the advice to come!

    Farseer w/ Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon; Fortune
    9x Howling Banshees. Exarch w/ Executioner; Acrobatic. +Wave Serpent w/ twin Brightlances, Spirit Stones
    6x Fire Dragons
    Falcon Grav Tank w/ Star Cannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Biting Blade; Crushing Blow, Stealth
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Scorp's Claw, Stealth
    Vyper w/ Crystal Targeting Matrix, Star Cannon

    1171pts so far

    concepts:
    Farseer rides with the Banshees and provides Fortune making them less fragile.

    Scorp Exarch w/ Biting Blade is there just for diversity's sake and I dont want to change him over to a Scorp's Claw because I want the 2 Scorpion squads to be different in some way from eachother.

    Vyper is to hang back and pick off targets of opportunity acting basically like a tau crisis suit. good for claiming quarters with after picking off whatever it can target for a whole battle.



    so! what input do you have for me with this list? what can I add to retain it's effectiveness, would you change anything in the list as it is? thanks in advance

    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 12th, 2005 at 08:48.

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    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artificer knoll
    Scorp Exarch w/ Biting Blade is there just for diversity's sake and I dont want to change him over to a Scorp's Claw because I want the 2 Scorpion squads to be different in some way from eachother.
    if thats the way you want it.
    if you're going to do that there's probably not much point even giving him a biting blade, why don't you leave it with just a ccw? you'll save points and probably won't lose much in effectiveness.

    personally i'd drop the ctm on the vyper, i'm of the belief that a vyper with a starcannon is one of the best buys in the codex (other people will disagree of course)
    although you could get more vypers...

    also i'd pitch in an idea for an 8 man warpspider squad maybe? or 2 6 man squads?
    warp spiders are great. they can take out nearly everything, even a marine squad will suffer when it has to make 9 armour saves, they are also really good against vehicles, their speed allows them to get around to side and rear armour, and although they can only glance the resulting dice storm usually deals with the tank.

    definately get a wraithlord, and don't be afraid to expose him to fire, thats what they're there for.

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    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    good point about the biting blade, I was under the impression, somehow, that it counted as a power weapon. I'll drop that from the list, thanks for pointing that out!

    I'll ponder on the rest of the advice you gave me as I have to go right now. will post later, thanks again for the response!

    I think Vypers are one of the best deals in the 'dex as well, but as far as the CTM on the Vyper is concerned, it seems like a good investment to me. all it has to do is pick off 2 marines to pay for itself, which seems reasonably achievable in one turn. being within 36" of the enemy means that if the enemy wants it dead, then it will be - I'd rather be able to move/shoot/move with it and keep it alive to make back it's points and potentially more plus be able to claim quarters with it.

    I think I'm going to take your advice and go with some warp spiders - they seem like horde KILLERS. I'd love to go up against orks or nids with a full squad of warp spiders in my armylist, and, as you pointed out, they're even reasonably effective vs. marines and most any vehicle they can flank. thanks for the advice on that. that'll go with my army theme of being swift moving and aggressive strategically on the battlefield. It also pleases me to include warp spiders because I want a high model count, and adding more troops is the way that's accomplished, so I'm set on a big squad of warp spiders .. I'll take 10! thanks for the advice

    I'm not sure if the wraithlord fits my army theme as it's so slow and ponderous. I'd like to include it, but I see it being left behind and ignored as it takes pot shots at the enemy's tanks here and there (I was thinking to put a bright lance on it as I need more of those in my list). I suppose on some level you need something to hold your table quarter, so it wouldnt be bad for that if it got ignored.
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 12th, 2005 at 08:41.

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    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    ok, with the advice of Tzarnikolai, I've included a squad of warp spiders. I've also dropped the biting blade for the one scorpion squad and left the exarch with just his chainsword/shuriken pistol/mandiblaster combo. this is done to add a bit of depth and character to the squads so there's no cookie cutter feel. here's my revised list for critique

    Farseer w/ Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon; Fortune
    9x Howling Banshees. Exarch w/ Executioner; acrobatic. +Wave Serpent w/ twin Brightlances, Spirit Stones
    6x Fire Dragons
    Falcon Grav Tank w/ Star Cannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Crushing Blow, Stealth
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Scorp's Claw; Stealth
    10x Warp Spiders. Exarch w/ Withdraw
    Vyper w/ Crystal Targeting Matrix, Star Cannon

    1413pts

    advice on filling this up to 1500pts?

    I really have a place in my heart for swooping hawks, and I think I could afford a bit of not-so-combat-effectiveness in my army as it seems pretty effective so far. it would also allow for a mid to late game reinforcement of a hand to hand which may serve to push it over the top into a win for my forces. advise me, which 1500pt list varient should I go with of the two listed below:

    Farseer w/ Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon; Fortune
    9x Howling Banshees. Exarch w/ Executioner. +Wave Serpent w/ twin Brightlances, Spirit Stones
    6x Fire Dragons
    Falcon Grav Tank w/ Star Cannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Stealth
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Scorp's Claw; Stealth
    9x Warp Spiders. Exarch w/ Withdraw
    5x Swooping Hawks. Exarch w/ Web of Skulls & Shuriken Pistol; Sustained Assault
    Vyper w/ Star Cannon

    1500pts

    or

    Farseer w/ Shuriken Pistol, Close Combat Weapon; Fortune
    9x Howling Banshees. Exarch w/ Executioner. +Wave Serpent w/ twin Brightlances, Spirit Stones
    6x Fire Dragons
    Falcon Grav Tank w/ Star Cannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Crushing Blow, Stealth
    10x Scorpions. Exarch w/ Scorp's Claw; Stealth
    10x Warp Spiders. Exarch w/ Withdraw
    Vyper w/ Crystal Targeting Matrix, Star Cannon
    Vyper w/ Crystal Targeting Matrix, Bright Lance

    1500pts

    the first option is leaning toward supporting the assault which I think is good, because it means that my army will focus on one aspect of warfare and back it up. it also allows me to use swooping hawks which I really have a fondness for.

    the second option keeps some of the fancier toys and skills in the list like the striking scorpion exarch's 'striking blow' skill which I really like, and adds a sniper vyper w/ bright lance, enabling more anti tank power in the list. this supports the AT fire from the wave serpent, fire dragons and warp spiders, also to a lesser extent the sniper vyper with the star cannon.

    which one should I go with, or should I go with option C: something you think would work even better!

    thanks for the responses in advance
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 12th, 2005 at 10:18.

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    id go with the swooping hawk list myself, p.s thanx for pointing out my mistake with the serpent i changed it now.

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    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    awesome, yeah that's my favorite, it's more in tune with the biel-tan aspect warrior theme and it supports the assault element which is essential that it wins the day so that should be good.

    glad to help out with the advice on your list, I like that court of the young king..I'm not brave enough to use it! :lol:

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    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    I don't use hawks, but if you'd like to use them, more power to you. One thing though, drop Something, anything, to get the claw on both exarches, and don't take crushing blow
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    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    hmm ok, I'll consider your advice very seriously, and maybe drop a banshee to get the claw. will contemplate what to drop while I'm out at the movies

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    LO Zealot Addoran's Avatar
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    Right, things to think about:

    1/Vypers should never have CTMs or any other upgrades. Yes - you only have to kill 2 marines and you get your points back...but think about this. 2 CTMs cost nearly the same as a whole other Vyper - which will kill more (and help you get your points back), and 3 Vypers is more survivable than 2 with CTMs. I'd really drop it and make it 3 Vypers with Starcannons if I was you.

    2/Vypers and other BS3 vehicles should never have single shot weapons like Missile Launchers or Bright Lances, they should always have Starcannons. They should only use weapons where the multiple Starcannon die make up for inaccuracy. So basically BS3 = Starcannon BS3 twin linked/BS4 = Bright Lance.

    3/I'd only take the Fire Dragons if you have a specifically dangerous armoured opponent. Otherwise fighting armies like Tyranids and Orks (Starcannons can kill most Ork vehicles anyway) with them is an excercise in futility. It seems odd to me you've taken them with Warp Spiders to be horde killers, the two units don't really compliment each other. Even if you shoot at the nid monstrous creatures with them whats probably going to happen is this:

    1/ 6 Fire Dragons shoot at nearby MC.
    2/ 66% hit (4) - 50% wound (2) - Monstrous Creature survives with 2/3 wounds (Carnifexs can have 5 wounds now).
    3/ MC promptly assaults Fire Dragons - Fire Dragons die.

    I'd only take them if I thought I was going to be facing a Leman Russ, Land Raider or Hammerhead...and your going to have Bright Lances anyway for that job.

    4/ How attached are you to your Farseer? I know how you feel about Court of the Young King.. don't worry I'm not suggesting it, but have you ever considered making your HQ choice Baharroth? I know most of the Phoenix Lords are actually poop and overly-expensive...but Baharroth is cheese on wings, and will greatly improve your Swooping Hawks. If you dropped your Farseer, those Fire Dragons and your existing Exarch, you might be able to fit him in.

    Quick summary of things Baharroth has.

    1/ Initiative 7(!)
    2/ Sustained Assault with a Power Weapon on WS 6 (he gets the +3 to hit on Marine/Chaos HQs!)
    3/ Marine like strength and toughness with 3 wounds (much better than your existing Exarch)
    4/ Pretty much all Swooping Hawk Exarch Powers and Weapons.

    The other great thing is that if you don't 'talk him up', a non-veteran opponent may assume he is merely a funky looking Swooping Hawk Exarch, and assign no more concern about him that your average Swooping Hawk Squad. This is until you charge his command squad and kill either his Commander or half the squad in a single assault phase before he gets to strike back!



    Anyway, merely my suggestions and experience being offered, take them or ignore them as you will.
    Last edited by Addoran; August 13th, 2005 at 02:44.

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    Member Super Unknown's Avatar
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    Take the Swooping Hawks. Use an army you enjoy playing, it is half the fun. Like Addoran said, drop the CTM on the vyper and give the Striking Scorps exarch the claw. IMO it is a dead heat between the farseer and Barroth. Barroth fits the theme well...

    I would recommend swapping the firedragons. I am not a big fan of these guys. Maybe another vyper? It dosen't add to your theme but it is an extreamly effective unit. Other than that looks good.

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