[1850] Biel-Tan {vs all} - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    [1850] Biel-Tan {vs all}

    *edit*
    see first list from the bottom of the thread for most current list variation, thanks heaps, your advice is super important to me!
    */edit*

    hey all, I've been encouraged to boost my armylist up to 1850 so I can compete in more tournaments and a ranking system for area 40k gamers, so I wanted to pass this list by you for critiquing. Points are really starting to get slim to come by which I view as a good sign, but my army isnt made to just steamroll any opponent, it's got some units I really like in it and have been wanting to play with. units that add special abilities and enable new tactics making my army more fun to play with, but not neccessarily the most powerful point by point. I've been battling with a 1000pt all infantry IG army for a long time now, so I'm pretty good at making something out of nothing on the battlefield I feel, and I dont want to be thought of as just another cheesy biel-tan player who requires little or no skill to win with his army. anyhow, here's my list, I'd really like to have your opinions on it.

    Biel-Tan Army of non-cheesy dOoM-ness:

    Farseer w/ fortune, 9 banshees incl exarch w/ executioner, serpent w/ BL, stones
    Farseer w/ fortune & guide, 5 wraithguard, serpent w/ BL, stones
    10 scorps incl exarch w/ stealth
    10 scorps incl exarch w/ scorp's claw, stealth
    8 warp spiders
    5 hawks incl exarch w/ power weapon, sustained assault
    5 fire dragons
    falcon w/ star cannon, holofield, stones
    vyper w/ star cannon

    1843pts

    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 19th, 2005 at 21:48.

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  3. #2
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Overall a ver ysolid list, points I would make:

    farseers wargear?
    Be aware that farseers being HQ and wraithguard being elite and banshees being troops means you may, in some scenarios, not be able to deploy the farseer at the same time as the unit, you may need to come up with alternate stratergies

    Spiders would like an exarch

    I reaally dont like fire dragons, particularly if you, as I supect you are, put them in the falcon, the falcon opperates best as a tank, not an APC, the dragons will get one shot which will kill about 3 people or one vehicle, then they will get charged and killed. I would ditch them and look at using teh points elsewhere (probably reapers)

  4. #3
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine
    Spiders would like an exarch

    I reaally dont like fire dragons, particularly if you, as I supect you are, put them in the falcon, the falcon opperates best as a tank, not an APC, the dragons will get one shot which will kill about 3 people or one vehicle, then they will get charged and killed. I would ditch them and look at using teh points elsewhere (probably reapers)
    Noooo. No exarch for spiders. Unnecessary, as all you get is bs5 and the ability to take cc abilities which I do NOT suggest.
    I also disagree with the comments about the fire dragons. Point is, they will pay off their points killing their one vehicles, so it's okay if they get charged and killed. And the falcon can move 12" a turn without limiting it's own tank capabilities.
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  5. #4
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    I was thinking about converting the 2 scorpion squads to being wave serpent borne vs relying on stealth which only sometimes I'll be able to use, while other times they'll be as fast as wraithlords which is bad. the only thing I fear is losing the first turn and having my fleet of wave serpents shot to pieces since they're not moving and able to take glances only

    thoughts on if I should convert to a 4 serpent/falcon formation or stay with how I've got it with the infiltrate/2 serpent/falcon setup

  6. #5
    Simple Green. Emp.'s Avatar
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    ~Drop the Hawks for a Serpeant for one squad of Scorps. IMO, Hawks don't do much even with the delievery system. If this is a tourney army, you honestly will mostly be going against Marines or Marine stat armies. The Exarch won't do much.

    ~Upgrade the Falcon to have a shurken Cannon, make use of it's ability to shoot one main weapon (pulse laser), and all defensive weapons (both star/shuri-cannons), after moving 12" and making all shots auto-glance.

    ~With your second Farseer, you didn't write sprit stones but you have two spells, so i'm going to guess that was just a typo and it really should be there. Anyway, give one Farseer a witchblade and a pistol (the one /w the Banshees), so he can fight with them. And, give the other Farseer a singing spear so that he can help your Wraithguard pop tanks.

    ~Other than those few suggestions, looks like a very strong/balanced/non-cheesy list. Good luck with it!
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artificer knoll
    I was thinking about converting the 2 scorpion squads to being wave serpent borne vs relying on stealth which only sometimes I'll be able to use, while other times they'll be as fast as wraithlords which is bad. the only thing I fear is losing the first turn and having my fleet of wave serpents shot to pieces since they're not moving and able to take glances only

    thoughts on if I should convert to a 4 serpent/falcon formation or stay with how I've got it with the infiltrate/2 serpent/falcon setup
    I've never had a problem with first turn. Basically, sit as far back as possible, use area terrain. They won't have too many weapons that can hit you that far back. Also, your other units should act as a nice distraction. You might lose 1 but losing more than that is unlikely.
    Really, it's up to you.

    ~Upgrade the Falcon to have a shurken Cannon, make use of it's ability to shoot one main weapon (pulse laser), and all defensive weapons (both star/shuri-cannons), after moving 12" and making all shots auto-glance.

    ~With your second Farseer, you didn't write sprit stones but you have two spells, so i'm going to guess that was just a typo and it really should be there. Anyway, give one Farseer a witchblade and a pistol (the one /w the Banshees), so he can fight with them. And, give the other Farseer a singing spear so that he can help your Wraithguard pop tanks.
    Definitely do NOT get the shurikannon. It just isn't worth 20 pts, since it will be shooting at armored targets alot with the other weapons on the falcon. It only pays itself off when all the other weapons are shurikannons.

    I'm willing to bet that that wasn't a typo. There isn't any need for both at any one time. However, I would ditch guide as there really isn't any need for it. bs4 is good enough, and you want fortune and you don't want to pay 40 pts for another power per turn.

    I would give BOTH farseers witchblade and pistol. That way, the one with the wraithguard can "defend" them if they get into cc. That is, do some damage in cc.
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  8. #7
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    mechanized revamp

    ok, I've given in to the mechanized urge. I want my army to be able to employ various strategies and be balanced and able to fight in different ways. previously (as posted at the top) my army is based on launching one singular assault - it's strategy can be foiled by lack of infiltrators rules which would turn the bulk of my assault force into footslogging-non fleet of foot moving troops which is just bad. the army above has one basic strategy and I want the ability to have multiple strategies, which I find, comes with mobility. this should go a long way to keep my army fun to play and entertaining. with this revised list I've also dropped my vyper, because, I hate to finally admit it, but it looks really dumb :lol: . since I want an army that I like playing with, I dropped it and am hoping to find a good replacement for it's firepower lost with the points made available in this revamp. anyhow here's the list, mechanized and all that. I've taken the advice and dropped the expensive and not horribly useful swooping hawks as well. also I've dropped some scorpions so that the list is more well rounded and not prone to launching an overwhelming assault and thus draining any decent strategy from things.

    revamped and now mobile army of uber-death-dealing-doom-and destruction-ness:

    farseer w/ pistol/ccw, fortune, 8 banshees incl exarch w/ executioner, serpent, twin starcannons, stones
    warlock w/ pistol/ccw, conceal, 5 wraithguard, serpent, twin starcannons, stones
    10 scorps incl exarch w/ claw, serpent, twin starcannons, stones
    6 fire dragons, falcon w/ star cannon, holofield, stones
    7 warp spiders incl exarch w/ hit and run

    1490pts

    advice would be appreciated.

    thewamp: still considering the witchblade thing, though 2 attacks that dont defeat armor saves arent really all that great; wounding on 2+ is nice but I guess witchblades really are there for S9 vs. vehicles but I dont see the farseers going h2h vs vehicles and the warlock with the wraithguard is there to go vs armor 14 targets, where a witchblade/singing spear just kinda is a long shot at adding anything in the way of glances or pens.

    again, all your advice is golden, I really rely on it, so thanks

    *edit*
    did some dice testing, and you're right, the wraithguard dont need guide to take out a vehicle, dropped that and tuned the farseer down to a warlock w/ conceal so he legally is allowed to ride in the serpent with the wraithguard (as it says 5 w.guard and up to 1 warlock (not farseer) may ride in a serpent), adjusted the list above to reflect this.

    I'd like to add some versatility so I can face off vs any army, but retain my mobility and thus my ability to fight according to various different strategies.

    added hit and run exarch to the spiders so they can pop in and add charge bonus assault attacks then disengage from an assault at the end of the turn. figured since I dropped some scorps, I should beef up on my assault support dept.

    I did more dice testing, and twin linked brightlances SUCK at destroying vehicles! I'm totally revamping my wave serpent weapon loadouts to go vs infantry and I'll leave the vehicle killing to the wraithguard and fire dragons. with the lances, it requires a 4+ on 2 dice to hit (easily doable) followed by, on just one die, a 4+ to glance/pen then a 4+ pretty much to boom the vehicle you're firing on. out of like 20 or 30 simulation rolls I got a vehicle destroyed like 2 times. not cool. with the wraithguard 4 or 5 out of 6 simulation rolls ended in vehicle destroyed, same-ish with the fire dragons.

    twin linked star cannons perform well in simulation rolls, almost always resulting in 3 dead 3+ armor save targets. this also goes well with my army as there's a decreased amount of hand to hand warriors so it'll serve to thin out the ranks before the serpents drop their troops. all of my serpents gets twin star cannons.

    the falcon seems pretty weak at killing heavy infantry and weaker at killing heavy armor; my test rolls result in typically 1-3 3+ armor save kills per salvo, that's with a star cannon on it; pretty much the same as a wave serpent. if it wasn't so darned tough I'd drop it for another serpent...I guess the pulse laser is good for instakilling crisis suits and other T4 multiwound enemies as well as wounding high toughness baddies.

    */edit*
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 20th, 2005 at 12:02.

  9. #8
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    wow not much new advice, so I've worked the list up to 1850pts while waiting. here's what I'm pretty settled on, comments would rock; thanks in advance.

    farseer w/ pistol/ccw, ghost helm, fortune, 9 scorpions incl exarch w/ claw, serpent w/ star cannons, shuriken cannon, stones
    farseer w/ pistol/ccw, fortune, 9 banshees incl exarch w/ executioner, acrobatic, serpent w/ star cannons, stones
    warlock w/ pistol/ccw, conceal, 5 wraithguard, serpent w/ bright lances, stones
    6 fire dragons incl exarch w/ firepike
    falcon w/ star cannon, holo-field, stones
    9 warp spiders incl exarch w/ hit and run
    7 swooping hawks incl exarch w/ web of skulls, sustained assault

    pts: 1849

    concepts: banshees and scorps for an assault element with the spiders w/ hit n' run and swooping hawks to back them up and turn the tide of an assault. swooping hawks and spiders for anti-horde, skimmers with their star cannons for anti 3+ shooty death, wraithguard and fire dragons for heavy AT. I think that covers it all; AT, heavy infantry, horde infantry.

    comments/criticisms?

    thanks
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 23rd, 2005 at 23:40.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Psipher19's Avatar
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    I thought we decided that hawks weren't cost effective.
    ditch them.
    And to fill their roll, mabe 15 or so guardians with a star cannon platform and warlock with conceal. I know they aren't too fast, but they nevver have to stand still, giveing them much more mobility over other infantry of other armys.
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  11. #10
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    If I ditch the swooping hawks, that frees up about 225pts. what should I do with those points? I'm not a fan of the guardian infantry and I want something that's able to keep up with my army. before you make recommendations, I want to point out what areas my army will be less efficient at due to the hawks being removed: hand to hand support, and anti horde shootiness. both of those are pretty big concerns for me, since I am down to only one squad of howling banshees and scorpions, I need some good hand to hand support. also, being able to have a good anti-horde amount of firepower can do alot to keep a swarm of gaunts from taking down a whole squad if they get the charge on me.

    I could do some storm guardians in a wave serpent with 2 flamers and a destructor warlock and that'd be anti horde and hand to hand support. I'd likely have to drop a warp spider or something to make room points wise for the squad, but it could be done.

    that'd be alot less fluffy for a biel-tan list, but would you recommend that over a squad of swooping hawks?

    *edit*
    I've done a really sweet swooping hawk exarch w/ web of skulls type conversion (using jain zar's throw-ie thing that counts as a web of skulls rules wise even) so I want to keep the swooping hawks, I reduced their number to reinforce their role as an exarch delivery system and added some variety to the wave serpents so they are no longer cookie-cutter

    */edit*
    Last edited by artificer knoll; August 23rd, 2005 at 23:43.

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