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1500pt Ulthwe

761 views 14 replies 7 participants last post by  malarion01 
#1 · (Edited)
1500pt Ulthwe Help me plz

Farseer: Fortune, witchblade, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Farseer: Guide, mind war, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Farseer: Mind war, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Enhance, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Embolden, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Augment, close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Warlock: Augment, close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Warlock: close combat weapon, shuriken pistol
342pts

5 Striking scorpions+1 Exarch: scorpions claw, stealth, crushing blow
153pts
*note that there are 6 models in the unit 5 normal guys and an exarch*

5 Striking scorpions+1 Exarch: scorpions claw, stealth, crushing blow
153pts
*note that there are 6 models in the unit 5 normal guys and an exarch*

10 Black guardians: bright lance platform, 2 crew
130pts

10 Black guardians: bright lance platform, 2 crew
130pts

6 Guardians: starcannon platform, 2 crew
98pts

6 Guardians: starcannon platform, 2 crew
98pts

1 Vyper: starcannon, shuriken cannon
85pts

1 Wraithlord: bright lance
120pts

1 Falcon: starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones
190pts


First off please no crys of cheese. I don't know if it's cheesy or not and if it is keep it to yourself.

As for battle plans My scorps are basically going to be used as a single unit except a bit bigger, 2 exarchs and you can't wipe out the whole unit from 1 unit (unless they lay down pie plates and even then. the guardians are just going to be laying down cover fire with their heavy weapons and shooting the appropriate targets for the guns they're using.

As for my seer council, for them I'm going to use the startegy that I like to call the "ball of lightning strategy" (This is what I do to better understand the uses for each unit, it helps) Basically they're going to be moving up the field fairly slowly on eldar terms because they won't be fleeting. They'll shoot out the odd mind war at the juicyest target (i.e. heavy weapon trooper, squad leader, or maxed out hq guy with no ward save). Also they'll be guiding the falcon if it's close enough or the wraithlord or a normal gaurdian squad if they're close enough. And last but not least they'll charge the enemy at the first chance they get (assuming the target can be beaten).

The falcon is going to move around the field getting los to whatever unit my opponent doesn't want him to shoot at, also possibly giving the scorps or council a lift if they're in need. The vyper is going to stick to the falcon (think of sharks and suckers) acting as an extra shuriken cannon and starcannon. Together theey can lay down an incredible amount of fire...6 starcannon shots, 3 shuriken cannon shots, and d3 pulse laser shots.

Latly the wraithlord will just move in a straight line toward the enemy either up the middle or on a flank, taking out vehicleswith his big gun, wiping out lightly armoured units with his 2 flamers and charge anything that's not a deamon prince or fex.

I think this list is pretty good and should be able to take on almost anybody if played right. I'll admit hordes could be a problem, but for them I could just try to force panic checks and they aren't normally good at taking those. I have all the models for this army except a second exarch and I need to buy the turret of the falcon to convert my fire prism (btw does anyone know how much that will cost me to get just the turret)

I also have an avatar, Asurmen, a unit of dark reapers, and a unit of swooping hawks.

What do you guys think?
 
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#4 ·
I know I'll have a tough time with horde armies but I knew that making this army. They'll just have to be a challenge. After fighting enoough of them I'll probably be able to form some awesome startegy against them like take out all the big bugs so I'm only left to fight the small ones.

The scorpions stay man. They are in my oppinion the best eldar unit. on the charge they get 4 s4 attacks at I5, meaning they'll go first against most things. With the 2 squads I have now I'm getting 42 s4 attacks and 8 s9 attacks that don't allow armour saves. that should be enough to waste a whole marine squad in one turn, or tank, or nid squad, or dreadnought, or pretty much anything else you can think of. Not to mention the pistols they fire before combat which might take a life or 2. Whereas swooping hawks get 2 s3 attacks with their gun and their only form of combat is their exarch who is VERY good, but not as good as the 2 scorpion exarchs I have now.

Any other comments on the list?
 
#5 ·
The-Night_Reaper said:
I know I'll have a tough time with horde armies but I knew that making this army. They'll just have to be a challenge. After fighting enoough of them I'll probably be able to form some awesome startegy against them like take out all the big bugs so I'm only left to fight the small ones.
generally this is the opposite of what you do, I would get swooping hawks or some black storm guardians with 2 flamers and warlock with destructor (mmm. toasty) good luck
 
#6 · (Edited)
The-Night_Reaper said:
Farseer: Fortune, witchblade, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Farseer: Guide, mind war, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Farseer: Mind war, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Enhance, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Embolden, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Augment, close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Warlock: Augment, close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Warlock: close combat weapon, shuriken pistol
342pts
This unit isn't overly expensive but I would cut it down a bit. Regular Ulthwe warlocks do not have to have psychic powers so it is a good idea to use some as Fortune meat sheilds. Seer Councils are mainly tough and don't deal too much damage so I consider it a good idea not to invest too much on them. For your army I would of used something like this:

Farseer: Witchblade, pistol, Fortune, Runes of Witness
Farseer: Witchblade, pistol, Guide, Runes of Witness
Warlock: Enhance, combat weapon, pistol
Warlock: Embolden, combat weapon, pistol
Warlock: Augment, combat weapon, pistol, Runes of witness
Warlock: Combat weapon, pistol
Warlock: Combat weapon, pistol

This limits the points a bit more so they can be spent on other units. This is purely supportive (they can also lend in a bit of combat support), I consider Mindwar to feeble to be of major use....character killing tends not to happen and Eldritch Storm is too expensive.

The-Night_Reaper said:
5 Striking scorpions+1 Exarch: scorpions claw, stealth, crushing blow
153pts
*note that there are 6 models in the unit 5 normal guys and an exarch*

5 Striking scorpions+1 Exarch: scorpions claw, stealth, crushing blow
153pts
*note that there are 6 models in the unit 5 normal guys and an exarch*
Consider larger squads to allow them to survive and increase damage potential. Currently due to the small sizes they can be picked off without too much trouble. Larger squads mean less chance of falling back/pinned and keeps the squad scoring longer. Also consider taking off crushing blow as strength 8 is already enough to penertrate all armour values and instant kills all T4 models.

The-Night_Reaper said:
10 Black guardians: bright lance platform, 2 crew
130pts

10 Black guardians: bright lance platform, 2 crew
130pts
These are good, I would add a Warlock with Conceal, Combat weapon, Pistol. This will increase the squads survivability level for a low cost increase.

The-Night_Reaper said:
6 Guardians: starcannon platform, 2 crew
98pts

6 Guardians: starcannon platform, 2 crew
98pts
If you are buying these just for the starcannons there are better units to use. You will find that any shooting directed at them will pretty much destroy the squad as it's a small squad and has no warlock with conceal to add some form of protection. IMO simple vypers with Starcannons are better due to the speed, it makes them more versitile. If you loose these two squads and add two simple vypers it would be cheaper and you gain a lot more mobility.

The-Night_Reaper said:
1 Vyper: starcannon, shuriken cannon
85pts
I would loose the Shuriken Cannon as you don't want to get too close with that light armour. They are also very expensive upgrades. Simple Vyper will do I think.

keep note, if you go for three simple vypers keep them separate as it makes the army more versitile and prevents the whole lot being shot down in one go.

The-Night_Reaper said:
1 Wraithlord: bright lance
120pts

1 Falcon: starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones
190pts
These two are good.

Overall:

At first glance the list is quite good. There are a few tweeks that I would change as mentioned above. You say you lack the anti-horde side of things. Well just looking I think that you have spend too much points in the seer-council and scorpians. I would combine the scorpians to make a squad of 10 and lessen the seer-council.

I would add in a few Warwalkers with two multi-lasers. The high strength and volume of shots makes them good against horde armies. It is also cheap. the long range should also keep them out of harms way, just be smart with what you do with them. Do not knock these weapons just because they don't have ap2. The shear volume of shots is still enough to deal deal with power armoured foes as well as light vechicals.......just two of these give you 4D6 str6 shots. I think you understand as you have chosen Scorpians instead of the power sword Banshees.

Oh yeah, consider using heavy weapons platforms. Especially three Distort cannons or Shadow Weavers. these have high strength, can pin, sits behind cover so they aoid being shot, are relative cheap and the weapons have large area coverage.
 
#7 ·
Those are some pretty good good suggestions but I have a few questions.

Isn't it better for a squad that's main purpose is to stay back and shoot a heavy weapon be better off deploying in cover in the first place rather than pay 33 pts a squad to give them a cover save?

What do you mean by a "simple" vyper?

Have you ever used warwalkers with scatterlasers and compared them to starcannons? I have and wasn't that impressed. Best case scenario against a marine squad:
you roll 4 6's (ya right)
gives you 24 shots
you hit 12 (rolling on 4+)
and wound 10
If your really lucky he'll fail 4 saves

Whereas a starcannons will get 12 shots everytime
you'll hit 6 of them
and then KILL 5

Then you also have to factor in that its just as likely (more so with my luck) that you'll roll 4 1's
 
#8 ·
A simple vyper is just a vechical with no amazing upgrades.....you may pay like 15pts to get a better gun but thats about it.

The-Night_Reaper said:
Isn't it better for a squad that's main purpose is to stay back and shoot a heavy weapon be better off deploying in cover in the first place rather than pay 33 pts a squad to give them a cover save?
Yes thats partly true but there are better units to take. There also the case that there may not be cover for you to hide behind. in addition to all this being in cover does not prevent you from being shot, the unit is so small anyways it won't do too much.

Generally small Gaurdian squads just for starcannons is frouned upon. I'm sure others will agree but this is just a matter of preferance.

The-Night_Reaper said:
Have you ever used warwalkers with scatterlasers and compared them to starcannons? I have and wasn't that impressed. Best case scenario against a marine squad:
you roll 4 6's (ya right)
gives you 24 shots
you hit 12 (rolling on 4+)
and wound 10
If your really lucky he'll fail 4 saves

Whereas a starcannons will get 12 shots everytime
you'll hit 6 of them
and then KILL 5
This is also true to a degree but starcannon solutions isn't all there is to an eldar army. You have to be versitile with the army. Just because scatter lasers don't ignor power armour save they do wonders against a light infantry for less while still having potential against heavier armour. it's also true you may roll badly, but you can roll badly with starcannons as well.
 
#9 ·
Your list is a bit static because your Guardians lack concealing Warlocks, and since you can't press forward your Scorpions risk being isolated and slain, especially since they are in such small squads (numbers are very important for a CC-unit) while the rest of your army sits back and shoots at whatever is not in close combat with your Scorps.

My suggestion is that you drop the Scorpions entirely and put Warlocks with Conceal in your Black Guardian squads, then buy a squad of Warp Spiders or maybe another Falcon.

Follow Heirmoyo's advice on the configurations, it is spot on.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Viktor said:
Your list is a bit static because your Guardians lack concealing Warlocks, and since you can't press forward your Scorpions risk being isolated and slain, especially since they are in such small squads (numbers are very important for a CC-unit) while the rest of your army sits back and shoots at whatever is not in close combat with your Scorps.

My suggestion is that you drop the Scorpions entirely and put Warlocks with Conceal in your Black Guardian squads, then buy a squad of Warp Spiders or maybe another Falcon.

Follow Heirmoyo's advice on the configurations, it is spot on.
Again wouldn't it be better to just put them in cover in the first place rather than pay 33pts a unit for a warlock with conceal?

Also don't think of the scorpions as 2 small squads but rather 1 big squad. That's how I'm going to use them. Since they're in 2 squads, it makes them harder to pick off with shooting, if it's just 1 squad shooting at them which will normally be the case. Also I get 2 exarchs which is just awesome.

heirmoyo said:
This is also true to a degree but starcannon solutions isn't all there is to an eldar army. You have to be versitile with the army. Just because scatter lasers don't ignor power armour save they do wonders against a light infantry for less while still having potential against heavier armour. it's also true you may roll badly, but you can roll badly with starcannons as well..
Oy Vay I'm tired of people talking about versatility when it comes to eldar weapons. A starcannon can do everything that a scatter laser can do, and more. Sure scatter laser CAN be amazing against light infantry, but so can starcannons. Scatter laser can also suck against light infantry for the small amount of shots they're just as likely to make. I know I sound a bit pessemistic (sp?) but I'm not sure about you but I can't rely on a weapon that's just as likely to fail as do well. The starcannon is good and solid. The other weapon an eldar has is the bright lance to take out armour. It's a great weapon for taking out heavy vehicles and light vehicles so it's top of my list. There are also other circumstances where other weapons are good choice, such as an EML on a dark reaper exarch and d-cannon platforms and pulse lasers.

I know this doesn't sound "right" but in reality we have one of the oldest books so we should use the best weapons we have.
 
#11 ·
The-Night_Reaper said:
Oy Vay I'm tired of people talking about versatility when it comes to eldar weapons. A starcannon can do everything that a scatter laser can do, and more. Sure scatter laser CAN be amazing against light infantry, but so can starcannons. Scatter laser can also suck against light infantry for the small amount of shots they're just as likely to make. I know I sound a bit pessemistic (sp?) but I'm not sure about you but I can't rely on a weapon that's just as likely to fail as do well. The starcannon is good and solid. The other weapon an eldar has is the bright lance to take out armour. It's a great weapon for taking out heavy vehicles and light vehicles so it's top of my list. There are also other circumstances where other weapons are good choice, such as an EML on a dark reaper exarch and d-cannon platforms and pulse lasers.

I know this doesn't sound "right" but in reality we have one of the oldest books so we should use the best weapons we have.
Fair play in the end it is your call.....I merely gave information which I thought would help since you did post the thread. You sound like a player who likes to bulk out with the strongest stuff. Obviously my style of play doesn't agree with yours. But do try to consider the advice for future refereance.
 
#12 · (Edited)
The-Night_Reaper said:
Again wouldn't it be better to just put them in cover in the first place rather than pay 33pts a unit for a warlock with conceal?

Also don't think of the scorpions as 2 small squads but rather 1 big squad. That's how I'm going to use them. Since they're in 2 squads, it makes them harder to pick off with shooting, if it's just 1 squad shooting at them which will normally be the case. Also I get 2 exarchs which is just awesome.
Again, if you just put them in cover you will not be able to move them around the field without getting shot to bits. You can move and fire with your weapon, so use it to your advantage instead of playing Iron Warrior.

Right, but two small squads have these disadvantages:
The enemy can charge one of the squads, impairing them one at a time. I know you can counter-charge, but then one of your squads should have sustained enough casualties to not be fighting at its best.
They cannot charge as one, if you intend to use them together they probably will attack the same target. But you have to charge with one squad at a time, and if you can't get into base contact with an enemy (very likely since they cannot fleet etc) when you charge with the 2nd squad they may not strike at all, dramatically reducing your number of attacks. And if you lose the combat, they have to take a ld. test as well.
You have to pay for 2 Stealth skills, also, Exarches may be good but without enough meat shields they won't be as effective.

All in all, it can be used at your disadvantage. Drop them, they do not fit into the army since it can/does not press forward.

I agree with you about the Star cannon however, it is the best all-round weapon we have. Scatter lasers are good for special occasions though, such as against Orks or IG.
 
#15 ·
The-Night_Reaper said:
Farseer: Fortune, witchblade, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Farseer: Guide, mind war, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Farseer: Mind war, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Enhance, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Embolden, witch blade, shuriken pistol
Warlock: Augment, close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Warlock: Augment, close combat weapon, shuriken pistol, runes of witnessing
Warlock: close combat weapon, shuriken pistol
342pts
The council I use the most is:
3x farseer with 3x witch blades 3x shuriken pistol 2x fortune and 1x guide
3x warlock with 3x close combat weapon 3x shuriken pistol 1x enhance and 1x destructor
for a grand total of 284 points
It has served VERY VERY well for me except the 1 time I got a bit to brave with them.
Yes lots of people have said you gotta have embolden, but I figure it's a 1/12 chance of failing leadership (1/6 if under 50%) odds are pretty good that won't happen. I've also used mind war a lot and found that it is only marginally effective. The models you usually want to mind war have a leadership of 10 usually also which means you do not have a great chance at causing wounds (altho when it does work it works wonders).

5 Striking scorpions+1 Exarch: scorpions claw, stealth, crushing blow
153pts
*note that there are 6 models in the unit 5 normal guys and an exarch*

5 Striking scorpions+1 Exarch: scorpions claw, stealth, crushing blow
153pts
*note that there are 6 models in the unit 5 normal guys and an exarch*
I'll be the first to admit I have 0 experience with scorpions so I can't really comment except to say that close combat units seem to work a bit better as a larger units.
The other thing about elites is think about warp spiders they are fast enough to keep up with the rest of the army and support the scorpions, are horde control, and can hunt down some light armoured vehicles (yes even with all glances).

10 Black guardians: bright lance platform, 2 crew
130pts

10 Black guardians: bright lance platform, 2 crew
130pts

6 Guardians: starcannon platform, 2 crew
98pts

6 Guardians: starcannon platform, 2 crew
98pts
Guardians and platforms gotta love em...
Personally due to the restrictions placed on your aspect warriors I would either suggest using 4 squads or cutting guardians down to match the number of squads that you are using. Also "I" would take them to minimum squad size and just give your opponents more pressing things to worry about, and stay closer to max range with the respective platform weapon.

1 Vyper: starcannon, shuriken cannon
85pts
Personally I LOVE vypers. I'd suggest not buying the shruiken cannon cause you don't want to get your vypers that close. Since you don't have any other FA choices I would really recommend getting 2 more and having 3 seperate units of 1.

1 Wraithlord: bright lance
120pts

1 Falcon: starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones
190pts
Now we get to the real meat of the army. The only real changes I would make to your choices is to swap the Bright lance with a Star Cannon and watch him become a fire MAGNET.

I like the list except for some of the changes I noted. The real thing to remember with eldar is always watch one units back with another. That other unit might be across the board, but it is still helping, and to always play to the units strength (ie don't expect a bright lance to be an infantry killing machine). If you want to PM me I can discuss it with you more or send you my full list. I don't know if those are all your models (including the ones listed or if your planning to get more). The number #1 thing to remember is to have fun. If it isn't fun it isn't worth doing.
 
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