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Ok im a first time nid player, and after a bit of reasearch this is the way i have decided to go with my first time fielding nids. Tell me what ya think, n e suggestions for improvement.
Hive tyrant 156pts
-2x Twin-linked Devourers
30 Hormagaunts 300pts
30 Gaunts 180pts
3 Warriors 99pts
this is my first nid list ever and was just wondering what ya think of it off first glance and what i could do to improve it.
the nid models i own are
1 hive tyrant
32 gaunts w/fleshborer
5 ripper swarms
so if need be i can add something from there.
To save time when it comes to things that are awesome, I will respond with a simpleOriginally Posted by Macman_EKIMOriginally Posted by Macman_EKIMOriginally Posted by Macman_EKIMYou'll want to break these guys into two broods of 15 or so. Gaunt Broods with more than 15 models tend to be unwieldy and hard to maneuver.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIM
Spinefists are probably a better option on the Fleshborers (more hits (twin linked) means more chances to wound, even if less wounds are scored). Plus, they're cheaper which means more gaunts.If possible, try to replace the scything talons with rending claws to make your opponant think twice about charging them. Adding a Venom Cannon is expensive, but a very good option.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIM
This is a really, really solid list for a first try. Normally I'd suggest genestealers, but for your first ever game with Tyranids focus more on having fun and learning the rules and how each of your units perform in combat (book reading is one thing, game play is something else. ).
Sweet man thx for the suggestions, i was a bit worried about the Hive tyrant and Carnifex, i was planning on splitting the gaunts up, the idea of spine fists really dident shake me as a good idea when i got all my gaunts so all my gaunts have fleshborers glued on them and i dont feel like glueing 64 new arms on and re painting, fortunatly my HT Fex and Warriors are all custmizable with removable parts so i can swap as i c fit. i was playing around with the idea of rending claws but id have to lose some gaunts to do that. well like 1 gaunt or so . thx for the feed back and im glad my first shot wasent totaly idiotic.
For your gubfex, dump the toxinsacs, they add nothing to the strenght of it's guns although you pay extar for it.
something that's nice to tell us is what pt limit you're playing. anyway let me have it a go!This is a very good tyrant if he has wings otherwise the devs really have to short range to be effective on a walking tyrant. If you decide to stick with a walking one you may want to replace the twin TL devns with these options "Venom Cannon + Barbed Strangler + Extended Carapace" or "Venom Cannon + Sything Talons + Extended Carapace + Warp Blast.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIMDrop the toxin sacs as it doesn't effect your weapons. Otherwise it's a very nice gunfex.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIMNice extra synapse and enemy fire soaker.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIMsince you couldn't replace the fleshborers I can only advice in splitting them to two equal big broods.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIMI'd really advice on making these either leaping or winged if you can because your gaunts will be out of synapse pretty fast otherwise. But if you can't do either of that try and swap those talons to rending claws instead and give them extended carapace.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIMIf you can spend the money the walking tyrant will be happy to have some tyrant guards.Originally Posted by Macman_EKIM
Otherwise it's a very good for a first try for a first list... keep it up!
I'm a semi-new tyranid player as well, and here's what I can tell ya:
That carni looks pretty good, but I'd lose the extended carapace. Most people go after a thing like that with lascannon type weapons, where it will do you no good. The EC gives you a leg up against bolter fire, but with T6 you shouldn't worry too much about that anyways.
I no longer like the walking tyrant. For synapse, walking sucks. shooting with a VC is decent at killing light vehicles, but little else. TL Devoureres have sucky range. Again, people are going to be using lascannons against you on this, so Warp Field is kinda wasteful. The Tyrant that I use looks like this:
Scything Talons x2
Implant Attack (purely optional, I had some spare points)
Adrenal Glands (WS)
This way I can fly him in, shoot out a marine or vehicle killing blast, then charge for maximum carnage. Also makes him a good homing beacon for 'falling back' hormogaunts. For cheapo added wings, buy a gargoyle blister, take the wings, cut them in half down the middle, sand for a flat surface, and glue at the shoulders. It looks nifty. I got rid of my shooty tyrant configuration because then all I wanted to do was shoot with him, and not take advantage of those awesome CC abilities he can have.
Your zoanthrope is real good. Grab two more if you can, configure them the same way. They can then take down marines at a decent range or most vehicles at a bit shorter range. Three Zoanthropes this way cost a little bit more than your gunfex, but you get one more shot. At BS 3 for all of these creatures, it's handy to have lotsa shots.
The gaunt horde-
Hormogaunts are awesome. The leap across the field like nobody's business. They're not godlike in CC individually, but when you get 30 attacks in one go, some of them are bound to do damage. I go for 14 point hormos, adding toxin sacs, initiative adrenal glands, and the all important flesh hooks. Your big problem will be synapse here. If they start in synapse you can move fleet and charge with a 19 inch minimum range. Then, if you're out of synapse, you no longer pass Leadership tests automatically, and if you roll poorly (grumble) you could potentially lose the CC and have a route on your hands.
Termagaunts are merely ok. you should be able to easily keep them in synapse if you watch your deployment. I thought to use them as a meat shield for my genestealers, but my opponent brought vehicles and other things that blasted my stealers into next week, leaving me with fairly ineffective shooters. Keep them cheap as you've done, rush them at infantry, watch synapse, and pray to the Hive Mind. I don't really like them that much, but if that's how you're gonna go, do as I've suggested.
Warriors. God I hate warriors. The best warriors tend to be in the 40 points apiece range, and still with T4, that just sucks to me. The only thing they have going for them is the immunity to instant death and 2 wounds. The best warriors to me are ones that go either shooty or melee. If you try to do both you get a warrior that's not particularly good at either, is heinously expensive, and still dies easily. The max BS of three just kills me,
Ideally, shooty warriors should be like this:
Devourer x2 = Twin Linked!
That's like 39 points per warrior. Four shots per round, 18 inch range, str 4, reroll misses, reroll failures to wound. Meh. Did I mention Devourers don't penetrate armor very well?
Flesh Hooks (all important)
That's 29 points/model, and we haven't covered how they're going to get to the enemy intact. Two viable options are leaping and winged. Winged moves them to Fast Attack, but then makes them even more expensive. I like leaping a lot, but then you lose out at being on the front line with your gaunts. Then, there's the adrenal gland upgrades, both of which are decent and tempting, but also increase the cost. Genestealers are faster, and cost just about the same per wound. There's just no such thing as an economical warrior. If you make them slow, they die to weapons fire. If you make them fast, they're not going to be faster than a genestealer. About the only advantage I can see is you can have 18 wounds in one brood of 9 warriors, and only 12 in a brood of 12 stealers. Give the stealers scuttle, and you make up for the leaping advantage the warriors get. (There's also the fact that 9 warriors will run you $105 US and 16 GS are $70).
Personally, I'd scrub the termagaunts and the warriors, add back in the stealers, maybe try the rippers (not a lot of experience there). If you had some spare cash, I'd grab some gargoyle wings for the tyrant so he can keep up with the hormos, and two more zoanthropes. Pretty much makes you good to go. Keep in mind that the hardest thing tyranids have to face is vehicles. the swarm part against basic infantry you can do, hands down no problemo. But those leman russes staring down their battle cannons at you are going to hurt unless you can get the 'fex and zoanthropes to hit it.
Hope this helps.
I understand your take on extended carapace. Shure lascannons, dark lances and all those ap1-2 weapons will still wound you like you don't have armour. But taking the upgrade isn't about that. It's about being able to almost ignore all the ap3 weapons (missle launcher, reaper launchers, ion cannon, rail rifles etc etc) and all those other high strength weapons out there (shuriken cannons, gauss cannons, autocannons, missle pods etc etc). You will want to have a 2+ sv whenever you are wounded, only fail rolling 1s is by far better than faling on 1s and 2s. It's like saying that a terminator armour is a waste compared to a power armour. I bet the SM player won't say that when you hit your warp blasts. My tyrants and fexes have been save too many times by that biomorph so I can really recommend it.Originally Posted by pelmen78What you say is true about warriors but you're missing a vital point here... synapse! Warriors arn't mainly built to kill stuff, they're more of a support unit providing synapse. In CC homagaunts and warriors are a very good combo vs light armoured units. Shooting warriors are also very good against light armoured units and light skimmers. But as said they're mainly there for synapse cause everyone agrees on that tyrant and fexes make better shooters and stealers are better in CC.Originally Posted by pelmen78
Note that I'm not writing this to critisise you play style but to make our new nid player see things from every point of veiw possible.
When it comes to nids, and the way we like our combat...Originally Posted by pelmen78
With 25353253 units all piled in...
I'll take leaping wars over genestealers anyday.
3" attack > 2" attack
I don't want to say it but stealers ARE accually better than warriors in close combat. a decent leaping warrior (AG(I)+Extended Carapace+Flesh Hooks+Leaping+Rending Claws+Scything Talons) costs 40pts and a decent stealer (extended carapace) cost 20pts so 2 stealers equals 1 warriors.Originally Posted by Leety
If we take that in fact to the stealers wounds and attacks, the two stealers are better or equal in every stat (I don't count BS). So statwise the avarage stealer is better than the avarage warrior.
How about speed then? The warriors move 6" and can assault 12", the stealers can move 6"+1D6" and can assault 6". So all in all the warriors have 6" ahead of the stealers, that means that the stealers needs to roll in total of 6" on their fleet move all turns before they get to CC... and I can say that it's pretty darn easy to roll equal or over 6" in 2 movement phases so that'll make the stealers faster than warriors most of the times.
Ok despite that the leaping CC warriors accually have some advantages over stealers.
1. Synapse... nuff said.
2. The few times the stealers roll less than 6" the warriors are faster.
3. When a warrior suffers a wound he'll have 3 attacks the next turn when the two stealers suffers a wound they loose 2 attacks out of 4.
4. There is a slight higher chance that the stealers are within rapid fire range than the warriors.
5. Full number of attacks within 3" instead of 2", but neither of the broods trend to be so big that they are out of 2"-3".
ok warriors have other advantages as well:
1. Warriors are far more customable and thus have alot of other uses than stalers.
2. Flying warriors are equal in speed or faster than stealers... but they lack the armour save. The gap between 5+ and 4+ is huge.
so conclution stealers make better CC monsters than warriors. But as said warriors are build for support... let the slaughter to other units.
Note: again I post this not because to criticise your thought but to bring facts... you choose your warriors over stealers if you want. I'm shure they work for you.
Ok i just want to clarify why im using the wariros. Plain and simple Synapse, i needed more synapse coverage.
im also going to take the suggestion to remove toxin sacs from my Fex. i dident pay attention to the max strengths of the guns but now i see my error
on that note i will have a few more pts left over and i can afford the rending claws for warriors
this is still just my first time , and i am going to plan on trying almost every possible combo with my units, so any suggestions are welcome.
o and my bad this is a 1000pt list sry i dident say that in the original post
thx for all the help again.