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  1. #1
    Senior Member Daedelus's Avatar
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    1700 Dark Eldar (Friendly) -- Please Critique

    Here's my 1700 poits Dark eldar list. any advie would be appriciated

    Archon 131
    --Agoniser
    --Splinter Pistol
    --Combat Drugs
    --Shadow Field

    Dracon 188
    --Punisher
    --Combat Drugs
    -Incubi X 4
    -Warrior x 1

    Wyches 262
    --Wych Weapons
    --Plasma Grenades

    -Succubus
    --Agoniser
    --Combat Drugs
    --Goblet of Spite

    -Raider
    --Disintegrator
    --Horrorfex

    Raider Squad 231
    -Warrior X 10
    --1 x Splinter Cannon

    -Sybarite
    --Agonizer
    --WebWay Portal

    -Raider
    --Disintegrator
    --Horrorfex

    Raider Squad 231
    -Warrior X 10
    --1 x Splinter Cannon

    -Sybarite
    --Agonizer
    --WebWay Portal

    -Raider
    --Disintegrator
    --Horrorfex

    Warrior Squad 100
    -Warrior x 10
    --2 x Dark Lance

    Warrior Squad 126
    -warrior X 10
    --2 x Splinter cannon
    -Sybarite
    --Agonizer

    Reaver Jetbikes 206
    -Reavers X 5
    --2 x Blasters
    -Succubus
    --Agonizer
    --Combat Drugs

    Talos 100

    Ravager 125
    --3 x Dark Lance
    --Night Shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Andusciassus
    there is a difference in a well educated kick and an amateur one.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member WarsmithNiG's Avatar
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    you list is a little messy.. anyway..

    HQ: your archon looks ok. which unit is he going with? he should not walk around alone. i personally feel that incubi are a little too expensive, you might want to go for 2 incubi and more warriors.. i would recommend raider too..

    Elites: i think with the goblet of spite, you are negating your wych weapon's ability.

    Troops: your 10 men squad should include a blaster. for raider squads carry webway portals, i normally go with a 5 men squad with a DL, because i dont expect them to do much other then to open the webway.. you have change most of your raiders DL into disintergrator. i would recommand to leave them as DL because this is where your mobile anti tank come in.. you have one 10 men squad with 2 splinter cannon.. either increase the number, give them a raider or drop them..

    Fast: for jetbikes, i would recommand to drop the succubus.. i dont find RJB useful in h2h.. it's ok if they have blasters going tank hunting, or meatshield for your lord on RJB, but that about it for me, i rather them be shooting blasters, then fighting in close combat.. if you really want to keep him/ her, give a power weapon instead..

    Heavy: i would go with 2 ravagers with 3 disintergrators each..

    you seem to have spent a lot of points on succubus upgrades(eg combat drugs) which IMHO i dont think is needed.. it is good that your have horrorfexes.. this might help you win, especially if you have pinned his multiple-heavy-bolters-havocs..

  4. #3
    The Dvl in Pale Moonlight danceman's Avatar
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    I agree on the drugs part. Drugs on a one wound model isnt that great a very good idea especially on models that already have drugs(even if random).

    The DL + Nightshield isnt a bad idea. Keeps abit more safe while hunting tanks but dont rely on it too much.

    Cheers dancey
    ""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.

  5. #4
    Tomb King medic_4077's Avatar
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    -Raider squads with single woounds do not make good WWP carriers. The Raider moves more than 12" on turn 1 and gets shot down. You then have to roll 1 die per model and take a wound on 4+ and reroll any that don't wound. This usually totals 8 or 9 wounds, of which you save 2 or 3. So the remaining 4-5 models are entagled in 4+ cover. He will then try and assault you because as long as you are in CC you aren't opening the WWP. Assuming your 4 guys win combat you still have to wait until your next turn to deploy the portal (so your units come in on turn 4 or 5 and maybe not where you hoped the portal would be). It's not that hard for him to shoot down 2 raiders in a 1700 point game, so your other WWP carrier is in the same boat. If you have to have the carrier in a Raider then a Haemonculous accompanied by grotesques is a tough nut to crack. It's still vulnerable to being tied up in assault but way more likely to eventually win combat.
    -Sybarites should have a second CC weapon (usually a Pistol)
    -I think that a Dracon is a poor choice for a second HQ. If you really want him because of the incubi then don't put any wargear on him at all and take another incubi. He will be singled out in CC immediately and die with only a 5+ save. A better second HQ would be a Drachite leading some wytches. Or, given that you have bikes, a Haemonculous on a bike is T5.
    -Wytches with a Goblet of Spite are a specialized unit (anti Monolith/Grav Tank) and really only need to be a minimum sized squad of 5. Otherwise they are more effective (and last longer) without the Goblet.
    -Your Dracon has no Raider and Incubi can't Fleet of Foot. Assuming you thought to put him in the WWP you should consider how rare it is to get that portal deployed within 12" of anything, especially if it gets shot down.

    At a minimum I would rethink the use of WWP with this list and change the second HQ choice. I'll take more wytches over incubi any day.
    War Record Since Sept 2005
    Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
    New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar

  6. #5
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Here is a breakdown for u...
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus
    Archon 131
    --Agoniser
    --Splinter Pistol
    --Combat Drugs
    --Shadow Field

    Dracon 188
    --Punisher
    --Combat Drugs
    -Incubi X 4
    -Warrior x 1
    Make up your mind, archon or drachon, never both in the same unit. Its against the rules. My suggestion is archon with agoniser, drugs, field, plasma grenades and pistol
    4 incubi might be too litle, consider 5-6, no more then 6 cause you dont want to overkill

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus
    Wyches 262
    --Wych Weapons
    --Plasma Grenades

    -Succubus
    --Agoniser
    --Combat Drugs
    --Goblet of Spite

    -Raider
    --Disintegrator
    --Horrorfex
    Drop the Goblet of Spite, it hurts just looking at it. Drop the drugs, too expensive to put on such a weak unit as a 1 wound succubus

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus
    Raider Squad 231
    -Warrior X 10
    --1 x Splinter Cannon

    -Sybarite
    --Agonizer
    --WebWay Portal

    -Raider
    --Disintegrator
    --Horrorfex

    Raider Squad 231
    -Warrior X 10
    --1 x Splinter Cannon

    -Sybarite
    --Agonizer
    --WebWay Portal

    -Raider
    --Disintegrator
    --Horrorfex
    I see absolutely no reason for webway portal once so ever. You dont have enough CC units to take a WWP, its expensive and definitely not worth it in your case. You only have a wych, HQ and a talos unit that stand in CC, thats not enough if u plan on webwaying. Besides, a 1 wound sybarite isnt a reliable carrier of such an expensive device.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus
    Warrior Squad 100
    -Warrior x 10
    --2 x Dark Lance

    Warrior Squad 126
    -warrior X 10
    --2 x Splinter cannon
    -Sybarite
    --Agonizer
    Loose the sybarite, this isnt a raider squad so u probably will never get em in CC, make them sniper squads (2x 10 man with 2 lances)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus
    Reaver Jetbikes 206
    -Reavers X 5
    --2 x Blasters
    -Succubus
    --Agonizer
    --Combat Drugs
    Succubus alrealy has drugs, you dont need to waste points on it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus
    Talos 100

    Ravager 125
    --3 x Dark Lance
    --Night Shield
    Nightshield is really expensive for suck a weak armored skimmer, I am sure you can put those points into something else. Talos doesnt fit this army, its too slow to get into CC by itself and your WWP view is upside down.

    Overall: You need to understand the strategy behind WWP, its used ONLY in armies rellying on CC to win the day, since it gets units into CC without em taking punishment on the way there. Wych cult is a good example of WWP force. You dont nearly have enough CC units to take a WWP. In your case I think its a big waste of points. My suggestion is looking over some previous army lists to understand how every type of Kabal is set up. Good luck

  7. #6
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Everyone had some really good points - I will summurize what I would recommend.

    Your Archon and Dracon are legal so ignore what Wraithguardian said.

    What are you doing with the Archon? In the portal on foot? Starting on the board?

    You can take a Dracite instead of the Dracon and get that 4+ inv. save in CC and take a retinue of wyches - I strongly agree with Medic_4077 on this.

    Drop the Goblet of Spite.

    Drop the drugs on succubi.

    Drop the nightshield.

    Drop the splinter cannon warrior squad and change into a sniper squad.

    Add at least 2 disintegrators to the ravager

    Add blasters to the raider squads

    On the bubble,

    Reaver squad, too weak for close combat and too expensive to be a tank hunter. Personally, you either add a reaver Archon OR you drop the succubi and go tank hunting.

    What is coming out of the portal? Dracon, wyches and talos for sure but what was your plan? What about the Archon?

  8. #7
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag

    You can take a Dracite instead of the Dracon and get that 4+ inv. save in CC and take a retinue of wyches - I strongly agree with Medic_4077 on this.
    This is a Kabal not a wych cult so the drachon-drachite is out of the question unless he switches to cult
    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag
    Reaver squad, too weak for close combat and too expensive to be a tank hunter. Personally, you either add a reaver Archon OR you drop the succubi and go tank hunting.
    I dont see the problem wih reavers, 5 of em is the default number and can stand its own in CC and take down tanks with relaive ease

  9. #8
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    This is a Kabal not a wych cult so the drachon-drachite is out of the question unless he switches to cult
    I'm not sure where you're getting your wires crossed but as my rulebook is written Archons, Dracons and Haemonculi can lead Kabals, and Archites and Dracites can lead Cults. You can only ever have one Archon or Archite and they will lead the army, and Archons and Dracons cant be in a wyche cult.

    That makes all the following perfectly legal

    Kabal
    Archon, Dracon
    Archon, Dracite
    Archon, Haemonculi
    Dracon, Dracon
    Dracon, Dracite
    Haemonculi, Dracite
    Haemonculi, Haemonculi

    Cult
    Archite, Drachite
    Drachite, Drachite
    The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed

  10. #9
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    This is a Kabal not a wych cult so the drachon-drachite is out of the question unless he switches to cult
    Dollars to Donuts WraithGuardian is using the 1st print codex probably with the old codex update. I keep quoting the 2nd print codex it now becomes a habbit. Check the sidebar on page 6 of the 2nd print DE codex, there is a gray box that tells you what you can have as Bugs_n_Orks has so nicely pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    I dont see the problem wih reavers, 5 of em is the default number and can stand its own in CC and take down tanks with relaive ease
    I have no problem with your opinion because it is just an opinion. If you are going to say my opinion is wrong then please explain why. It's okay to disagree but you haven't supported your opinion why its better. Let me support mine and you can support yours after.

    5 reavers isnt enough to do anything "with relative ease" in my opinion. At 5, they are disposable - do or die. If they dont bust that tank with only 2 dice rolls then they are dead, simple. You make it sound it is inevitable but I have had several games where 2 blasters missed 3 turns back to back. Anyone with darklance squads know the quandries of only 2 die rolls - except a 100 point sniper squad is more forgiving than a 145 reaver squad. They only have to lose 2 to start rolling for leadership and their leadership starts to get into jeopardy when they lose 3.

    Even with close combat, 5 reavers isn't enough to "stand on their own" as you claim. They get 1 attack, 2 attacks if they charge but back to 1 attack in the second round (same as a typical warrior). That's like saying that a 5 man warrior squad with a pistol and a ccw is a "stand alone" squad. It is barely a supportive unit - a warpbeast squad for 75 points is a better supportive squad than the 5 reavers, beasts have more assault range and cost almost twice as less in points. And please don't bring the +1A drug effect into it since it is a 1 in 6 chance of getting it.

    7 in a reaver squad is minimum for me to engage in close combat. The reaver squad has to inflict a critical amount wounds on the charge or it will suffer in sustained close combat. That is why I won't condone a lone succubus without the sufficient amount jetbikes. Adding an Archon to that group adds as much as 5 to 6 more powerweapon attacks and the squad benefits from his boosted leadership stats as well as counting as 3 more models in cc - so the Archon being the 7th jetbike is plenty to be a "stand alone" squad.

    That is my opinion based on my experiences and looking at the probability in general.

    Please let us know why you think 5 reavers is a "stand alone" close combat squad and tank busting dynamo.
    Last edited by KwiKwag; June 7th, 2006 at 00:37.

  11. #10
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    As a tank busting squad, I use reavers to cyrcle up enemy trasnports that arent too heavily armored thus it doesnt nearly take as much firepower to bring those down in comparison to a russ or something else with AV14 or 13. Getting more reavers might be more effective yet a lot more expensive. Whenever i use em, they almost always get killed after the finish their job. I usually send em to take down the most important trasport of the enemy, once they are done, they die. As for heavy armor, I relly on lances to snipe em out from a far, especially due to the >12 AV rule which is helpfull. As for CC, well, I am not a fan of reavers in CC, I use wyches and incubi most of the time. Maybe 5 is a relatively low number for reavers, but still I would rather relly on wyches to do all the slicing since they are twice as cheap and just as effective, if not more.



    "This is a Kabal not a wych cult so the drachon-drachite is out of the question unless he switches to cult"

    The word drachon should have been archite, sry for the typo

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