2000 Points, 2 Armies, 2 Waves of CC - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    2000 Points, 2 Armies, 2 Waves of CC

    Ok I initially came up with a 1000 point list I really liked. I wanted to start with that and then expand to something like this.

    1000 Point List

    HQ - 134
    2 Farseers
    -Guide
    -Fortune
    -SP+CC

    Troops - 190
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers

    Elites - ~556
    9 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth

    9 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth

    6 Warp Spiders

    Heavy Support - 120
    Wraithlord
    -Bright Lance


    I know this one is really elite heavy, but I love Scorpions. I might consider redoing the HQ as they really dont serve a ton of purpose except buffing the Wraithlord and providing a bit of support later on.

    Expanded 2000 Point List

    HQ - 80
    Avatar

    Troops - 460
    10 Storm Guardians
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers

    Elites - ~700
    8 Warp Spiders

    10 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth

    10 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth

    Fast Attack - 390
    2 Vypers w/ SC
    2 Vypers w/ SC
    2 Vypers w/ SC

    Heavy Support - 240
    Wraithlord w/ BL
    Wraithlord w/ BL

    So that is the list. I think I come in with still over 100 points to spend too, I built this list at work without a codex to check out, so I left a little breathing room.

    Basically, like the title said, there would be two waves. First wave would be the infiltrating Scorpions, with the Ranger squads infiltrating as well to provide covering fire, and the Warp Spiders booking it to back them up also. The Second wave would be the slowly (but surely) advancing Avatar, Wraithlords, and Storm Guardian squad. I would have the Guards act as a shield for the bigger guys mainly. I dont think they could cover the Lords, but I think they can the Avatar. The second wave is pretty vicious I think. Two Wraithlords and an Avatar charging into CC would be pretty scary. The Vypers would obviously cause no end of trouble, flying around and taking out heavy troops and whittling down the stuff not being bogged down in CC.

    I can spot a couple potential weaknesses myself, but I wanted to get others opinions. Essentially, there are (surprise) two plans. If infiltrating is allowed, the Rangers would combine with the Scorpions in a 2-1 ratio. I worry that that is a lot of infiltrators, and there might not be enough cover for them. If not, then I would have a pretty solid firebase with the Scorpions getting into wave 2. Infiltrating is my main goal. The Rangers would cause some havoc, hopefully pinning one or two squads a turn. The Scorpions could be aggresive when needed, or countercharge someone going for the Rangers. If any tanks got too close, Haywires can rip em to shreds. Also, if really tough troops rolled up, I would concentrate all Ranger fire, along with the BLs from the Lords to soften them up for the Scorpions. I presume that the Spiders would get close quickly, able to back up the Scorpions. I might consider getting an Exarch with Powerblades to help out in CC if the Scorpions get bogged down by high armor save troops. Otherwise, they could help the Rangers harrass.

    This looks like a fun list to play. I see no extreme weakness. Nothing is overly important, so I would never have to hope something lived. If a squad got wiped out, there is backup, and more backup for it. Its got a lot of power in the first wave, and the second wave could clean up shop nicely. There are a lot of units I could see opponents getting upset with. 6 Vypers and 4 Ranger Squads would annoy me! Let me know what you guys think.


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  3. #2
    Member reaperofsquirrels's Avatar
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    depending on the map storm guardian will get in there pretty fast. id probably use them to harass the enemy models that survived the scorps and are moving along or the ones the scorps are advancing on. also i would add alaitoc pathfinders/turn a ranger squad into them. and kill on a 4+. unless there is alot of terrain and i mean alot i would drop the plasma grenades. i found my scorps usually strike first/same time. i find that a starcannon is usually better with the lord unless they whip out big tanks/dreadnaughts. if so give one a starcannon and leave a brightlance.

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    Ok a couple things. First change to aliatoc. I don't think you have to change anything in your army for that. Just say "I'm playing aliatoc" and you get to make disruption rolls. Simple as that.

    Moving on I hate vehicle squads. Pairing them makes them much much more vulnerable. I'd consider taking out 3 of those vypers and adding a fully upgraded falcon. Not only is the falcon hard to kill but it packs a lot of firepower too and can get your troops out of trouble or move up the storm guardians if you turn them into a flamer squad

    On that note what are those storm guardians doing. They don't even have an enhancing warlock or special weapons. On their own storm guardians are just bad and have a habit of losing to MEQ units that aren't even cc oriented.

    If you do make the army one thing you should remeber. Don't infiltrate into charge range against cc oriented armies! On their own those scorpeons will not hold out against twice their number of genestealers for even a turn. In these situations I'd advise putting them behind cover just a little further up than you could normally deploy, in the path the units that threaten the wraithlords would take. Lay down fire with the rest of your army and charge the enemies weakened units as they try to go past.

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    I'd like to second what Sunnyside said. You will need a pimped out falcon acting as a mobile fire magnet if you want your scorpians to survive - by drawing the las shots from space marine squads, it will keep the bolters off of your Scorpians. There armor is insurance, not a strategy.

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    Senior Member Gallowglacht's Avatar
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    I'll add my vote to the swap 3 vypers for a Falcon idea. And yeah you could just call yourself Alaitoc and pick up some disrupts, you have enough Troops to do so. Also it would be nice to see an Alaitoc army that isn't just about maximising Disrupt and attempts to field a Balanced list. Like this one.

    With your extra points you could get a few storm guard with flamers/plasma to stick in the falcon. Or more rangers.
    Last edited by Gallowglacht; July 2nd, 2006 at 22:16.

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    Ok tried a few revisions...

    HQ - 152
    Avatar

    Farseer
    -Fortune, SP+CC

    Troops - 460
    15 Storm Guardians
    -2 Fusion guns
    -Warlock w/ Conceal, SP + CC

    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers

    Elites - 634
    9 Warp Spiders

    9 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth
    -Scorpions Claw

    9 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth
    -Scorpions Claw

    Fast Attack - 195
    Vyper w/ SC
    Vyper w/ SC
    Vyper w/ SC

    Heavy Support - 430
    Wraithlord w/ BL
    Wraithlord w/ BL
    Falcon w/ SC, SS, HF


    I don't want to plan around Altaioc, but I would use it while I could. If Pathfinders become avaliable then I would rework some stuff to get them into the army. I want to keep the grenades on Scorpions, and I read through and I think you have to take both grenades on the Scorpions, cant just take Haywire which I need with the lack of ranged tank busting. I cut the Scorps down to 9 each and brought the Spiders up to 9. For purposes of morale, I think squads of 9 or 10 could both need to lose 5 units to be under 50%, so the extra guy isn't required IMO. The Wraithlords, Avatar, Farseer, and Storm Guards would form wave 2 now. It really has a lot of power with them added I think. I still have around 50 points as well if my calculations are right (again rough guesses). Maybe work in another squad of Rangers or a Storm squad to ride in the Falcon. Better? Worse?

    Also, I would definitely plan accordingly when deploying. I think the entire game plan rests on deployment. Putting the Scorpions out too far and letting them get shredded too fast would not allow wave 2 to get into support fast enough. Same thing if I deploy them too far back, there would be no first wave enssentially and the Rangers would be left on their own. So a lot of playtesting before anything serious. Thanks again!

  8. #7
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    Oops, Troops should read around 541.

  9. #8
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    Better. While I'm still not so sure how the storm guardians will work out they may at least serve as a ranged weapon sponge. At 8 pts a model, re-rollable cover saves and ld 10 they should last longer than the enemy expects.

    With the 50ish point you might want to consider putting a shurican cannon(in addition to the starcannon) on the falcon and maybe give singing spears to your farseer and (less usefull) the warlock. It puts some more AV into the squad and that could keep the land raiders/rhino off of you.

    As for the falcon I think you'll find the cannon coming into play a number of times in the game. Especially when you aren't carrying troops I think you'll find you get good results out of playing it in a forward position. Remeber you don't have to make an Ld check to shoot a vehicle instead of the nearest infantry but you DO have to test to shoot some infantry instead of the nearest vehicle even if you can't hurt the vehicle.

    By playing the falcon out in front you can pull a lot of fire off of your second wave and maybe even the first. This works especially well against units like, well, pretty much everything in the Tau troop section.

    The only reason not to have it is that the falcon may spend a lot of the game shaken and may still get killed before you get your points back on that. But still I like having mine.
    Last edited by sunnyside; July 4th, 2006 at 18:52.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Gallowglacht's Avatar
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    Remeber you don't have to make an Ld check to shoot a vehicle instead of the nearest infantry but you DO have to test to shoot some infantry instead of the nearest vehicle even if you can't hurt the vehicle.
    Really? I kinda assumed it was a vice-versa thing, knew I should have read that book more carefully but when you've already read 3 versions (rogue trader on..) of the same basic rules (plus necro + Gork) they tend to kinda blurr in the boring bits. Thanks. I'll remember that next time my serpent drops some banshees. Every little helps.

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    Hehe, I came up with this after I remembered Phoenix Lords. I like this army better than the previous one. Everything is pretty obvious what it does. Its extremely mobile with either all skimmers, infiltrators, or jump troops. I would have liked a Wraithlord in here, but I didn't think it would fit with the theme I was going for. Fluff for this army is great. Craftworld based around a ninja style theme. Stealthy with power.

    HQ - 291
    Karandas
    Farseer
    -Singing Spear
    -4 Warlocks
    - Singing Spear
    - CCW + SP x3

    Troops – 456
    5 Rangers
    5 Rangers
    7 Rangers
    7 Rangers


    Elites - 672
    9 Warp Spiders

    10 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth
    -Scorpions Claw

    10 Striking Scorpions
    -Plasma and Haywire Grenades
    -Exarch
    -Stealth
    -Scorpions Claw

    Fast Attack - 195
    Vyper w/ SC
    Vyper w/ SC
    Vyper w/ SC

    Heavy Support - 380
    Falcon w/ SC, SS, HF
    Falcon w/ SC, SS, HF


    Total = 1994

    I ran out of ideas, so I just added the Farseer on for something! I figure it can ride around in a Falcon until they are needed. They could fulfill an anti-tank role if needed with two singing spears and a couple of shields, or a counter charge unit with all the Scorpions and Warp Spiders busy but someone goes after the Rangers. I absolutely love Karandas... His model is so sweet. He is a little overpriced (or a lot depending on your opinions), but by joining a squad, he could really boost their potential. The major flaw with the army I can see is lack of high AP weapons. Five Starcannons might be able to hurt some squads of high save troops, but probably not wipe them out. I would have to rely on the Exarchs and Karandas to take them out with Claws. If I really ran into problems with tanks and such, I would look at getting more Brightlances into the army, but with all the squads either hopefully in melee or cover, plus every unit but the Rangers can hurt armor 10 and get into position to hit that, it might not be a big problem. Better than the other army? I think this one has an even better theme myself. Tootles!

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