1000 Coven - Shooty - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    1000 Coven - Shooty

    I already have a successful raider kabal and a wyche cult under construction, but I have ended up with quite a bit of spare models in the process, and there is still cool units that I couldnt fit into any of the two raider based armies that I would like to own. So, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the Flayer Bats haemunculi coven!

    Tactica:

    HQ and HS:
    The scourges are a shooty unit that is 'vulnerable to assault', but if any enemy unit stops within 18" of any of the scourge squads, it will have brought itself within range of the haemuncoli destructors, and will hopefully be wiped out or seriously weakened by the heavy fire. Should I need to kill indirect fire vehicles, I can also choose to deepstrike my heamunculi and have them attack with their haywire grenades. The scourge agonisers will help me finish off squads or MCs that have not been completely wiped out.

    Troops: The warriors provide the firepower I need to take care of the things that are too tough for the haemunculi and scourges, such as MCs and tanks. The warriors many DLs can also finish off targets that survive the scourge shooting, or further soften them up before the scourges charge in.

    Will it work? Oppinions are very welcome.

    HQ (132):

    Haemunculus
    + Scourge Wings (counts as hellion skyboard)
    + Scissorhand
    + Destructor
    + Grusome Talisman
    + Haywire Grenades

    Haemunculus
    + Scourge Wings (counts as hellion skyboard)
    + Scissorhand
    + Destructor
    + Grusome Talisman
    + Haywire Grenades

    --------------

    Troops (400):

    10 Warriors
    + 2x Dark Lances

    10 Warriors
    + 2x Dark Lances

    10 Warriors
    + 2x Dark Lances

    10 Warriors
    + 2x Dark Lances

    ---------------

    Heavy Support (468):

    7 Scourges (Haemuncilos joins squad)
    + 4x Splinter Cannon
    1 Sybarite
    + Agoniser
    + Splinter pistol
    + Plasma Grenades

    7 Scourges (Haemuncilos joins squad)
    + 4x Splinter Cannon
    1 Sybarite
    + Agoniser
    + Splinter pistol
    + Plasma Grenades

    Total: 1000


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  3. #2
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    well typically a haemonculi coven has grotesques. but as far as your list goes...

    Thehellion skyboards? are they only in for the deep strike you mentioned? and also for the mobility it will give to your hq (seemingly your only CC units)?

    Ok scourges with 4 cannons can put out a lot of shots, but they are VERY expensive. In addition they are also very fragile. If you are forced to deal with several charging units you wont be able to effectively stop any of them. On one hand you can shoot everything at one unit then finish them with your destructors, but htis leaves the other units option to charge. Once you get assaulted with this list you will be done. The weight of 2 agoniser and 2 haemonculis is nothing against a unit of slugga boyz.

    If i were you id add some mroe warriors. a larger squad with shreddars and splinter cannons, and sybarites with agoniser.

    Try dropping 1 unit of dark lance warriors and one squad of scourges. Then change the other squad to 7 men without the sybarite. Add in two units of warriors at 15 men each. two sheddars, 2 s.cannons, and sybarites w/ agoniser. this should add to about 1000 again. Fly the Hqs with the scourges to make them 9 man strong and theyll be able to take down whole squads together with 16 splinter cannon shots, 2 rifles and 2 ap D6 flamers.

  4. #3
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    This isnt realy a coven, it doesnt feature any grots or taloses so its a simple warrior Kabal/hami lead army.

    Overall I am distant when it comes to scourges, but knowing how you like making lists to face certain enemies, you probably have a reason to use them. I dont think your sybarite need plasma grenades, unless you have a few points to spare. As for the hamis, winged? Thats a very unusual configuration. Unless you are planning to play for fun, I dont think you will have a whole lot of success with this force for the following reasons:

    1. Warriors die quickly to str4 ap5 weapons and better, and since they are your backbone, they wont do you a whole lot of good

    2. Scourges arent any diffirent, you are bound to loose a few every turn. And with -1 Ld modifiers for being under 75% and less penalties will scare them away very quickly.

    3.Hamonculus is far better of supporting grot squads, not scourges. Besides, your destructor's range will greatly reduce the distance between your scourges and the enemy so you splinter cannon range goes to waste

    4. Putting a sybarite into a scourge squad is a waste if you ask me, if they are charged they will usually be killed very quickly, so any upgrades in CC are a waste. Sometimes sybarite saves the day but most of the time, my scourges get charges by CC experts so alone he has no chance to nail a squad. And Hamis dont do so good in CC either, even with that many attacks.

    5. Your scourge stratefgy is based if the enemy stops 18" of them, thats what I dont like aout this tactic. When I make my list I make a strategy, focusing it around what happens if what I expect doesnt happen, will I have the power to counter my mistake and fix it before turn 6.

    I dont suggest you use this force unless you are not playing to win or if you have a specific use for it.
    Last edited by WraithGuardian; August 1st, 2006 at 04:01.

  5. #4
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    This isnt realy a coven, it doesnt feature any grots or taloses so its a simple warrior Kabal/hami lead army.
    Well.. I never thought of grots or taloi as nessecary in a coven. To me, covens are simply armies without lords, but with haemunculi for HQ.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    Overall I am distant when it comes to scourges, but knowing how you like making lists to face certain enemies, you probably have a reason to use them. I dont think your sybarite need plasma grenades, unless you have a few points to spare.
    I understand why people hate scourges, for they are really bloody expensive for what they can do on the battlefield. I am considering to drop the scourge idea all together, as it simply dont seem to work. Rats.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    As for the hamis, winged? Thats a very unusual configuration. Unless you are planning to play for fun, I dont think you will have a whole lot of success with this force for the following reasons:
    The haemis are winged, so that they can get within flamer range more easily. Also, they make a cheap haywire carrying unit for DS tankhunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    1. Warriors die quickly to str4 ap5 weapons and better, and since they are your backbone, they wont do you a whole lot of good
    Well.. I never planned to have the warriors to stand in the open for long, but I recon that there arent always enough cover to hide 4 squads.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    2. Scourges arent any diffirent, you are bound to loose a few every turn. And with -1 Ld modifiers for being under 75% and less penalties will scare them away very quickly.
    Hmm.. point. Scourges are worthless. I will rethink the idea and come up with another tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    3.Hamonculus is far better of supporting grot squads, not scourges. Besides, your destructor's range will greatly reduce the distance between your scourges and the enemy so you splinter cannon range goes to waste
    Almost no one will try to outshoot scourges, most people will try to tie them up in CC. That is why the destructor is so great on jump troops.. more on that later.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    4. Putting a sybarite into a scourge squad is a waste if you ask me, if they are charged they will usually be killed very quickly, so any upgrades in CC are a waste. Sometimes sybarite saves the day but most of the time, my scourges get charges by CC experts so alone he has no chance to nail a squad. And Hamis dont do so good in CC either, even with that many attacks.
    The syb is mostly there to deliver a coup de gras, if a few´enemies survives the splinter cannon and destructor shooting. Also, the agoniser is an effective auxillary anti tank weapon, and a decent infantry killer. IMO, the agoniser syb is well worth it in any squad that carries assault weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    5. Your scourge stratefgy is based if the enemy stops 18" of them, thats what I dont like aout this tactic. When I make my list I make a strategy, focusing it around what happens if what I expect doesnt happen, will I have the power to counter my mistake and fix it before turn 6.
    only hormagaunts, 1/6 of all wyches and models in open topped transports doesent have to stop within 18" of a squad they wish to assault. Even assault marines wuould be forced to du so, and thats when I planned to whack them with my cannons and destructor. For some reason, I thought that the destructor was S5 when I made this list, but now that I have looked up the real amount of damage the weapon can du, I dont feel as keep on this strategy either.

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithGuardian
    I dont suggest you use this force unless you are not playing to win or if you have a specific use for it.
    I will rethink the concept of..

    ...re thinking...

    Disco. What do you guys think of this raider/portal coven?

    HQ:

    Haemunculi (47)
    + Scissorhand
    + Destructor
    + Grusome Talisman

    Haemunculi (45)
    + Scissorhand
    + Destructor

    -----------------

    Troops:

    8 Warriors (218)
    + Splinter Cannon
    + Blaster
    1 Sybarite
    + Agoniser
    + Splinter Pistol
    + Web Way Portal
    Raider
    + Dark Lance

    8 Warriors (218)
    + Splinter Cannon
    + Blaster
    1 Sybarite
    + Agoniser
    + Splinter Pistol
    + Web Way Portal
    Raider
    + Dark Lance

    9 Warriors (171)
    + Splinter Cannon
    + Blaster
    1 Sybarite
    + Terrorfex
    + CCW
    + Splinter Pistol
    Raider
    + Dark Lance

    -----------------

    Heavy Support:

    Talos (100)

    Talos (100)

    Talos (100)

    Total: 999
    Last edited by Sareld; August 2nd, 2006 at 02:38.

  6. #5
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Hey! If you like scourges, thats all that matters, use scourges. Don't just switch to a completely different kind of army because some guy from the other side of the world told you to.

    Scourges are ok, and anyone who says they aren't just doesn't know how to use them. What really matters is that you like the army you are playing, the fluff, the models and what sort of way they fight, how powerful they are should come last.

    Everyones list always ends up with just warriors and wyches, maybe the odd ravager or reaver squad because they are 'tournement winning' units. My list is including scourges, mandrakes and hellions when it could have more wyches or ravager or reavers. People say they suck, they should be used anyway, prove them wrong.

    Better to have a really fun, cool, themed army that you like than one that wins all the time, thats just what I think though. A scourge themed army would be incredibly cool.

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  7. #6
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenozuma
    Better to have a really fun, cool, themed army that you like than one that wins all the time, thats just what I think though. A scourge themed army would be incredibly cool.
    Very true, when I commented on scourges, I didnt mean not to use them. Besides, I was commenting on success of the list in battle, not on how much fun it will bring during battle. As I said, if you have a specific strategy, by all means go with your list.

  8. #7
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    The first list was a bit oversimplified, and I just needed a little reminder on that I didnt exclude the scourges because Wraith told me that they were a less competitative chioce, but rather because I had an entirely new idea and didnt want to make a new thread just to post it. Dont worry guys, I will always be going my own ways, I just enjoy to discuss my ideas with you guys before I do so. LO is such an inspiring forum.. you should see what I sometimes get when posting lists on warseer. Sheesh.

  9. #8
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    That gives me an idea, I think I under play scourges and the reason I hate them so is probably because I never gave them a chance to prove themselves for me. I hate loosing sometimes, but gotta conduct experiments once in a while right???

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    Indeed.. experimenting rocks. I think the reason why I never had success with them either is because I tend to equip them like a warrior squad, which makes them too expensive. For the purpose of delivering WWPs, I dont need an 8 man squad lead by an agoniser sybarite and boasting 4x splinter cannons, I need 6 guys, one of which are carrying a portal. Period. That comes to 152 points, and gets you a deepstriking WWP and a 6 man scoring unit.

    I do however still think that the scourges are too expensive. The said 6 man squad without the portal would be around 100 points.. enough to buy a ravager or a talos, is 6 flying warriors worth that? No way. And if I equipped them with 4x splinter cannons and an agoniser the same squad would be around 200 points, enough to buy 2 taloi or 2 ravagers. Are they worth it now? Nope. The only thing that can justify the high point cost of the scourges is to deep strike portals. Equipping them to do anything else is a waste of points.

    (Comments on my 2nd army list is still very much apprechiated. Maybe we should take this discussion to the DE forum?)

  11. #10
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Actually I dont agree with you there, I mean you deepstrike scourges into position on lets say turn one. You can only open the portal on turn two, and the units come out on turn three on a +4 roll. I think thats a litle late for reserves to come, besides the fact that you dont know which squads will come and which wont. Plus, after you deepstrike scourges with a portal, they will probably be shot to hell, since you will probably be deepstriking them close to enemy line.And overall, I wouldnt let warrior like models which are extremely fragile to carry something as important as WWP, I would feel a lot better if I would have a homonculus or something of that sort.

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