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Need some suggestions as I am trying to get an effective Tau force to fight a hell of a lot of Chaos. I have a battle coming up which will consist of my 2000 pts and Ultramarines 2000 pts vs 4000 pts of Chaos. I have never fought Chaos before so Im a little nervous about what I am going to be facing. This is a CITY fight.
Here is my army so far. It is base around the fact that the Marines are taking the role of close combat where of course, im taking the role of being the shooty half of the battle.
Commander Mystweaver - Shas'o XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Cyclic Ion Blaster
Shield Generator, Iridium Armour, H/W Drone Controller, H/W Multi-tracker, H/W Target Lock
2 Shield Drones
2 Mystweaver's Bodyguard - Shas'vre XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Twin linked Plasma Rifles & Missile Pod
H/W Multi-tracker, and One of them has Stimulant Injector
Commander Darkfyre - Shas'o XV8 Crisis Battlesuit
Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle
Shield Generator, H/W Drone Controller, H/W Multi-tracker, H/W Target Lock
1 Shield Drone
2 Darkfyre's Bodyguard - Shas'vre XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Twin linked Plasma Rifles & Missile Pod
H/W Drone Controller, H/W Multi-tracker, H/W Target Lock
2 Shield Drones
4 Squads of 6 Units.
2 Leaders, 2 Shas'ui. 4 Markerlights, 2 H/W Drone Controllers
2 Marker Drones
2 XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Shas'vre has Twin linked Burst Cannons, Missile Pod,
H/W Multi-tracker, H/W Drone Controller
2 Shield Drones
Shas'ui has Twin linked Burst Cannons, Targetting Array
Stealth Suit Squads
2 Squads of 3 Units
Shas'vre's have Fusion Blasters, Targetting Arrays & H/W Drone Controllers, 2 Shield Drones
Shas'ui's have Burst Cannons & Drone Controllers, 1 Shield Drone
Sniper Squads - 2 Squads
2 XV88 Broadsides
Both are Shas'vre so are single targets. They have:
Advanced Stabilization, H/W Multi-trackers, H/W Drone Controllers and 2 Shield Drones each.
The idea behind this setup:
Commander Mystweaver, the 5 Unit squad (3 crisis, 2 drones) has a 2+ save and a 4+ invulnerable with template and large rate of fire weapons. At 12", this squad can put out 13 shots and 1 blast template, at 18" this is reduced to 11 shots and 1 blast template. If engaged and butched in H2H, the commander can still run with the Hit and Run tactics. As wounds are taken, they first go onto the bodyguards which take a wound each. On the third wound, the bodyguard with Stimulant Injector takes the wound to give a further 4+ save from death. If this fails, one Bodyguard is down. Next to go are all shield drones, then the last bodyguard until the commander is left standing alone.
This ensures the rule of majority applies to the whole squad and it retains its 2+/4+ saves.
Commander Darkfyre's squad are marine killers and have the potential to hurt anything that needs AP 1 to hurt! Or perhaps a tank or Terminators... who knows... The drones here once more provide the 4+ invulnerable that I think ill need!
The firewarriors will sit back and advance slowly in two columns with the marker drones at the rear.
The stealth squads will be providing a distraction whilst being able to take hits with the 4+ invulnerable saves too.
Snipers and Broadsides will be providing long range fire. If anything gets too close, the Broadsides can move and shoot all weapons to blast anything that gets within 24".
I welcome any constructive advise. Thank you for your time.:wacko:
Right a couple of points here, the whole unit does not get 2+ saves, the BG's get 3+ as normal, just because the drones have the same save as the commander and are in the majority for saves does not mean the whole unit gets the 2+ save, where do you get that idea from.Originally Posted by Mystweaver
I have seen this tried a couple of times, the shield drones do not modify the save of battle suits in a unit, they have the same save & TGH as the controlling XV8 suit and thats all, the BG stay at 3+.
So if you got wounded 5 times the shield drones and commander would take a wound (they are the majority save and tougness is not an issue)then the two BG would take a wound, this is why BG suck, they remove the IC status of the commander so he HAS to be allocated a wound before the BG if he is in the majority. If you lose a drone the BG then take the wounds 1st because they have the worst save.
Your point about sim injectors is also wrong the 1st wounds go onto the SD and commander, then the wounds go onto the BG so you cannot take a re-roll for the commander to save him a wound, he must be allocated a wound before the BG and if he fails it he fails it.
You can only re-roll the save on the model the sim injector is equipped on.so you could only take a re-roll on the 4th wound at the earliest in a full unit, to late to stop the commander taking a wound if he fails his save.
If a drone is lost the wounds are then taken on the BG 1st.
So a drone must be lost 1st, then in the next round of wound allocation the BG take a wound each and then the remaining SD and commander, then you can disperse any remaining wounds as you see fit,
Re-read the rules for mixed armour and majoriity toughness.
Also in CC the rules for independent characters still apply, so the commander would only take wounds from a model in B2B with him, the Bodyguards cannot be allocated any wounds that are inflicted on the commander from any model in B2B with him.
God bodyguards suck.
So with this in mind I would have a re-think:[/QUOTE]
:cry: Well said.... good thing I just bought the rule book... looks like its time for me to read those bits. I think my way of thinking is down to the fact that we have been playing it as I have mentioned above. I was under the impression that due to the majority rule, if three out of five of the squad have a 2+ save, the entire squad effectively gets that save. Then when you fail said save, you can allocate wounds whereever you choose... It would seem I am wrong. I shall read this up when I get home and drastically alter my army list.:w00t:
I dont quite understand the importance of IC rules. So it means you cant shoot at IC's without passing a Priority check on leadership? That is not so hard? And when you fail you have to shoot closest target right?
Excuse my lack of understanding of the rules, we have only just got back into the game after not playing for 10 years or so... up until last week we were still playing it that assaulting units (or chargers) go first... where as lo behold, as you know, its worked out on initiative... which i think is great!! Apart from the fact that Tau suck in H2H! :wacko:
The IC rules state that if an IC is not a part of a unit he cannot be targeted if he is not the closest unit to the shooting unit, the only time this can be got around is if the targeting unit has a special rule to allow it to target any model (farseer's mindwar. or vindicare assassins etc). Target priority rolls play no part in targeting a lone IC, if he is not the closest unit he cannot be shot period.Originally Posted by Mystweaver
If a commander joins a unti of BG it can be targeted as part of the unit so has to be allocated wounds if enough wounds are caused to cover the whole unit, if he is part of the majority save he has to be allocated wounds first etc.
This is why BG suck.
Btw, re-reading above too. It was my bad, i didnt mean to indiate the BG had a 2+ save, just that because 3 of the 5 models have a 2+ save, they can benifit from it... is this still not the case?
Yes the model with the 2+ save (the commander) and the two drones get a 2+ save and a 4+ inv, but the thing is you do not want your Commander allocated any wounds at all.Originally Posted by Mystweaver
If he is used as a lone unit and is just kept close but behind a unit of XV8's or even better surrounded by a unit of drones (circular formation, but Commander not attached to the drone unit) he cannot be targeted by normal units but he can stil shoot the opponents unit throught the XV8's.
This is the major benefit of IC status and by utilising this benefit and the Jump shoot jump tactic the commander should very rarely take any wounds. A BG is not needed and by putting so many points into the bodyguards your stopping yourself taking other valuable units like Pathfinders.
Your list has way to many points invested in pointless wargear and expensive drones, your stealth units cost 344 pts (a normal full squad only costs 180pts), all you need is one full strength unit with no upgrades, no drones and no 3 man teams, a full strength basic squad is very effective and definately more effective than a unit of 3.
Get your HQ sorted, take a couple of Shas'Els (no airburst) with plasma / MP, targetting arrays and HW multi, cheap effective and hard hitting, or swap out the MP for a fusion if your confident.
Your Shas'O is overpiced, and has way to many upgrades its weapons are the worst choice for a Shas'O/El, resist the temptation to take so much support gear on one model it is not needed, the Shas'El above is more effective and a hell of a lot cheaper.
Get the elites sorted, take a full strength Stealth squad without all the silly upgrades.
If you want XV8 teams take Plasma / MP and multi for a ranged unit you can keep out of the enemys range easier
I never use XV8 teams I prefer lone suits they are more effective and are immune to running away and last man tests.
lose the marker drones and markerlights on the FW squads, I am not sure if your aware but the drones have to move with the squad, if they move they cannot use the ML's (they are heavy weapons) same goes for the markerlights on the Shas'Ui's if the FW squads move they cannot fire.
Lose all the drones and ML and bulk up the FW squads, take 2 full strength basic squads with Shas'Ui's they will be much more effective.
If you want ML's take a pathfinder squad they are much more effective, do not take any railrifles or drones.
XV88's are less effective than Hammerheads, if you have the model take the Hammerhead.
if something gets to close to your broadsides they are usually gone believe me.
Sniper drones well I dont rate em, to easy to counter, I would rather have a Hammerhead, with its STR6, AP4 submunnition its as good as sniper drones anyway and no where near as fragile.
These are just some broad pointers, I am not saying you should follow them all but I think you need to steer clear of all the expensive upgrades, BG and drones and sort out a good solid basic core 1st and then with the points left add a few upgrades, the main things you SHOULD do though are:
1 Lose the BG
2 Lose the drones (all of em apart from snipers if you like them)
3 Lose all the upgrades on the stealth and FW squads.
Hope this helps you, please do not take any of it as criticism, I am aware your new to Tau
Point taken, I have a hammerhead, but was not going to use it due to the confinements of the cityfight. Perhaps I shall now, and I might just have to go out and buy a pathfinder unit... oh and some more Firewarriors...
Thanks for the advise, ill keep chatting tomorrow
Ahhh cityfight does make a difference, the airbursting is good in city of death but put it on a XV8 Shas'Vre not the commander.Originally Posted by Mystweaver
Read the rules, we have been playing OH SO WRONG.... well all that is now going to change and we will be playing 40k with whatever edition rules these are :rolleyes:
My Adjusted Army List:
Commander Mystweaver - XV8 Shas'el
Plasma Rifle, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Shield Generator, Iridium Armour, H/W Multi-tracker, Vectored Thrust
4 Squads of 6
1 Squad of 6
XV8 Crisis Battle Suits
3 Squads of 2 Units. 154pts ea
1 - Shas'vre: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, H/W Multitracker
2 - Shas'ui: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multitracker
1 Squad of 2 Units
1 - Shas'vre: Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, H/W Multitracker
2 - Shas'ui: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multitracker
1 Squad of 8 in Devilfish. Upgraded with Decoy Launchers
One Squad of Sniper Drones
1 Squad of 2 with Shield Generators.
Shas'vre - H/W Multi-tracker, H/W Drone Controller, 2 Shield Drones
One Hammerhead Tank with:
Railgun, Smart Missiles, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, Disruption Pod.
Me likes the mechs :wacko:
I was thinking of taking Advanced Stabilization System instead of shield generators for the BS so they can move and shoot? Works out cheaper and with the 20 pts i save i can get 2 seeker missiles....?
Not sure what you have done here, I think I am reading this correctly you have 3 squads of XV8's consisting of 2 units(XV8 models I assume) and 1 squad below it, you also have a stealth squad.Originally Posted by Mystweaver
Well thats 5 elites choices, you can only take 3 elites choices in a standard force organistion list.
If this is indeed what you have done then your list is totaly illegal.