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  1. #1
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    1250pts first friendly attempt

    That's my first 1250 pts list and I'd appreciate some advise on what to change or to get next (1500 pts). In this list I do use each single piece I posses at the moment (some models are even used by ignoring wysiwyg) and my budget is rather tight.


    HQ:
    1 Archon
    + Agoniser, Shadow Field, Hell Mask, Splinter Pistol
    1 Master Inccubus
    5 Inccubi
    3 Warriors
    + 2 Splinter Cannons (i've got to many Splinter Cannons)
    1 Raider
    + Nightshield
    393

    1 Haemunculus joins Troop B
    + Scissorhands, Destructur, Hell Mask
    50

    Elite:
    1 Succubus
    + Agoniser, Hag. Weapons, Mask of the Damned
    9 Wyches
    + Hag. Weapons, 1 Shredder (just because it's on the model)
    1 Raider
    238

    Troops:
    A
    1 Sybarith
    9 Warriors
    + 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blaster
    1 Raider
    + Slave Snares
    206

    B
    1 Sybarith
    + Archangel of Pain
    13 Warriors
    2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Shredder
    163

    C & D
    2* 10 Warriors
    2* 2 Dark Lances
    2* 100

    ------------
    1250 Points


    Tear it apart :-)


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  3. #2
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    HQ:
    1 Archon
    + Agoniser, Shadow Field, Hell Mask, Splinter Pistol
    1 Master Inccubus
    5 Inccubi
    3 Warriors
    + 2 Splinter Cannons (i've got to many Splinter Cannons)
    1 Raider
    + Nightshield
    393

    1 Haemunculus joins Troop B
    + Scissorhands, Destructur, Hell Mask
    50
    Archon needs combat drugs and preferable plasma grenades.
    Warriors in the CC are meatshields, and those points paid for splinter cannons wasted
    The raider doesnt need night shield, its too expensive and usually isnt worth it
    Incubi master is too expensive for his role, so he is a waste of points too
    I nice way to set up a CC HQ is something like:
    Archon - drugs, pistol, agniser, shadow field, hell mask and plasma grenades
    5 incubi - plasma grenades
    Raider - horrofex

    I dont think you need a hamonculus unless you plan on taking grotesques or carrying WWP
    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    Elite:
    1 Succubus
    + Agoniser, Hag. Weapons, Mask of the Damned
    9 Wyches
    + Hag. Weapons, 1 Shredder (just because it's on the model)
    1 Raider
    238
    By Hag weapon is think you mean wych weapons? If so then you are right. Mask of the damned isnt a usefull item and I would really suggest droping it to save points.
    Raider can use the a disintigrator, while shredder is the bigest waste for wyches. The whole point of wyches is to exersize their CC abilities, shredder negletes them, I know you have the model but it truly is a waste. All the wyches can use plasma grenades to ignore cover when charging with their high I

    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    Troops:
    A
    1 Sybarith
    9 Warriors
    + 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blaster
    1 Raider
    + Slave Snares
    206
    There is no pooint having a sybarite unless you plan on getting into CC, if you do you give him agoniser. You cant have 2 splnter cannons on a raider squad, only one and one blaster. Slave snares are also a waste unless you face nid swarms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    B
    1 Sybarith
    + Archangel of Pain
    13 Warriors
    2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Shredder
    163
    Archangel of pain is a waste and besides, you are not allowed to take more then one arcane wargear item, and you have two. Shredder are generaly a waste of points, for same point cost, the blaster is a far better choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    C & D
    2* 10 Warriors
    2* 2 Dark Lances
    2* 100
    These are good.




    I understand the budget might be tight, but this list lacks variety and has no fast attack or heavy support choices which is a great disadvantage.

    I really suggest getting your hands on a ravager which will give you a significant tactical advantage and a nice multi gun platform. Taloses are usually too slow and thus are only taken in WWP armies or simply to scare your oponent.

    Consider jetbikes, they are fast flanking units, with their 24" boost they can get anywhere in a blink of an eyes.

    Warpbeasts are cheap and amazing in taking down targets with armor save of 4+ or worse.

    Before setting up the list, make a strategy about how you ant to engage your opponent, CC or ranged, or through the use of WWP, then consider the units that will help you achieve this.

    Hope this helps, msg if you need further help.

  4. #3
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    At first: thanks for your reply.
    But there are still some points I'd like to discuss, because I partially disagree or I'm not absolutely convinced by what you said.
    Maybe I should tell you that in most cases I play with 3 friends like: SM + DE vs. CSM + Orks.
    Fruther I knew that some points are wasted, just because I wanted to reach 1250 points.

    HQ:
    Does the Archon really need Combat Drugs and which option do you prefareably pick? I guess there are only + 1 Attack or Re-Roll Misses which make any sense.
    I will consider the plasma grenades, but in fact I didn't need them yet. I'll keep the Master Inccubus to use up points.

    Concerning the Horrorfex: Is it allowed to shoot with the Horrorfex and the Dark Lance in the same turn? If no, I'd rather not take it, because there's still a very high chance that the enemy succedes in his LD test.

    ELITE:
    Yes, by Hag Weapons, I meant Wych Weapons. When I read about the Mask of the Damned, I thought it was a very nice gadget, so I still wanna try how it works. But I'm not sure: Does the Mask also count for ranged attacks or only for CC?
    Concerning the Wych shredder you are right, I will explain that my friends shall ignore wysiwyg in this case (this will be possible, but I can't state that everything's something different). It's just an absolute waste.

    TROOPS:
    Ah, thanks, you're right. In a raider squad I can only use one SC and one Blaster. The Slave Snares are on the model, so I'm going to keep them and cause distraction among the orks. I think the whole Raider Troops will cause more fear than actually harm the enemy.

    The Archangel may be a waste, but what about a Xenospasm? Beside, I think I am allowed to take more than one arcane item. The update just states that I mustn't take the same item more than one time, doesn't it?

    So you think the next think to purchase is a ravanger? Do you think the ravanger is better than 3 Jetbikes with Blasters? I mean: Value for points ...
    I will adept my list soon, maybe anyone can help me with my questions ...

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    HQ:
    Does the Archon really need Combat Drugs and which option do you prefareably pick? I guess there are only + 1 Attack or Re-Roll Misses which make any sense.
    I will consider the plasma grenades, but in fact I didn't need them yet. I'll keep the Master Inccubus to use up points.

    Concerning the Horrorfex: Is it allowed to shoot with the Horrorfex and the Dark Lance in the same turn? If no, I'd rather not take it, because there's still a very high chance that the enemy succedes in his LD test.
    Yes archon needs drugs, all the options are good depending on the situation but if he has agoniser, then there is no point of +1 str. Reconsider the master incubus part, i know the model looks cool but its a waste.

    Horrofex is used instead of the raiders main weapon, but the beauty is that if it hits more then one model, it starts lowering the enemy leadership. For instance, if it hits 5 models fully or partially, the enemy will subtract 4 from its squad Ld and thats A LOT, even high Ld squads will have trouble passing it with that kind of penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    ELITE:
    Yes, by Hag Weapons, I meant Wych Weapons. When I read about the Mask of the Damned, I thought it was a very nice gadget, so I still wanna try how it works. But I'm not sure: Does the Mask also count for ranged attacks or only for CC?
    Concerning the Wych shredder you are right, I will explain that my friends shall ignore wysiwyg in this case (this will be possible, but I can't state that everything's something different). It's just an absolute waste.
    Its a flamer template, yes its ranged but has no effect on CC models. Thats why I encourage horrofexes rather then this. You pay a lot of points for one attack that only subtract 2 from enemy Ld while horrofex depends on how many models it hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jule
    TROOPS:
    Ah, thanks, you're right. In a raider squad I can only use one SC and one Blaster. The Slave Snares are on the model, so I'm going to keep them and cause distraction among the orks. I think the whole Raider Troops will cause more fear than actually harm the enemy.

    The Archangel may be a waste, but what about a Xenospasm? Beside, I think I am allowed to take more than one arcane item. The update just states that I mustn't take the same item more than one time, doesn't it?

    So you think the next think to purchase is a ravanger? Do you think the ravanger is better than 3 Jetbikes with Blasters? I mean: Value for points ...
    I will adept my list soon, maybe anyone can help me with my questions ...
    1.Slave snares are only good if you intend on plowing right into the advancing ork horde, after that your raider is a goner since orks are killers in CC, so its a one shot use weapon unless you are plowing into a nid swarm.
    2.You can only have one arcane item so its either archangel or xenoplasm or something else. Xenoplasm is a simple terrofex except it inflicts dmg on top of pinning. Its not too popular among DE, almost all of the DE players focus on horrofexes to do the job. Its cheaper and more convenient.
    3.A ravager definitely is the best item to continue your list with, jetbikes should follow.
    Think of a strategy and then buy stuff, if you go CC go with taloses, wyches, incubi and sniper squads. If ranged go with warriors, ravagers, bikes, and etc but first think of a strategy.

  6. #5
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    Based on your input I changed my Army List slightly for the game I played today.

    HQ:
    1 Archon
    + Agoniser, Shadow Field, Splinter Pistol, Combat Drugs
    1 Master Inccubus
    + PlasmaGrenades
    5 Inccubi
    + PG
    2 Warriors
    1 Raider + Horrorfex

    1 Haemunculus joins Troop B
    + Scissorhands, Destructur, Hell Mask
    50

    Elite:
    1 Succubus
    + Agoniser, Hag. Weapons, Mask of the Damned
    9 Wyches
    + Wych Weapons + PlasmaG.
    1 Raider + Horrorfex

    Troops:
    A&B
    10 Warriors
    inkl. 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blaster
    10 Warriors
    inkl. 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Shredder

    C & D
    2* 10 Warriors
    2* 2 Dark Lances

    E
    5 Warriors
    inkl. 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Blaster
    + Raider + Horrorfex


    After today's game (SM+DE 2500 vs. 2500 CSM+Ork in an Ambush Mission) I want to share what I found out.
    Don't attack enemy units that may be killed in a single turn of Close Combat with your Lord or with your Wyches. After killing a whole Ork mob in a single turn my Lord+Retinue stood in the open field and were forced to flee due to heavy enemy fire.
    Don't attack (or get attacked by) enemys with good saves with your wyches (such as Terminators). My whole squad was killed without doing any damage by 3 Terminators and Chaos Lord. Wyches seem to be a lot better against normal Warriors, Boyz, Marines or whatever.
    Kick the Haemunculus if you can field anything else worth 50 points. He may be usefull accompanying grots. Maybe I will give him a CC-Raider-suicide-Squad to lead next time.
    You can never have to many Dark Lances. A Ravager will be a good choice to buy next.

    In the end it was quite a clear victory. Although almost my hole army was erradicated (~250 points left), the SM player hadn't lost more than 200 points and most of the enemys army was dead or routing (incl. the chaos guy with the Lord of Change in his bag)

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