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  1. #1
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    1500 Pts for Critique

    My typical opponent has finally decided on an army that will remain nameless (think 40K vikings if you are curious), but the goal of this list is to be able to take on pretty much anyone. I know there are weaknesses, but it's hard to see them for yourself. I'm a bit nervous about using Pirahnas, but they are the only thing that made sense to me with the list. Feel free to come up with an idea that would remove them from play if you want (they are the most expendible)

    Please comment (including the "why's" about what you say if you could). Thanks in advance.

    HQ
    Shas'el Y'he Sha'is - 100 Centurion (PR/CIB/TA/HWMT)

    ELITE
    Crisis Team 1 - 139
    Team Leader (TmLd/PR/MP/TA/HWMT)
    Fireknife (PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 2 - 139
    Team Leader (TmLd/PR/MP/TA/HWMT)
    Fireknife (PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 3 - 124
    Helios (PR/FB/MT)
    Helios (PR/FB/MT)

    TROOP
    Firewarrior Team 1 - 240
    12 Firewarriors
    Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DL)

    Firewarrior Team 2 - 240
    12 Firewarriors
    Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DL)

    FAST ATTACK
    Pirahna - 75 (FB/TA)

    Pirahna - 75 (FB/TA)

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/MT/DL)

    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/MT/DL)


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  3. #2
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    My typical opponent has finally decided on an army that will remain nameless (think 40K vikings if you are curious), but the goal of this list is to be able to take on pretty much anyone. I know there are weaknesses, but it's hard to see them for yourself. I'm a bit nervous about using Pirahnas, but they are the only thing that made sense to me with the list. Feel free to come up with an idea that would remove them from play if you want (they are the most expendible)

    Please comment (including the "why's" about what you say if you could). Thanks in advance.

    HQ
    Shas'el Y'he Sha'is - 100 Centurion (PR/CIB/TA/HWMT)

    Not a fan of the CIB but that comes down to personal choice. I prefer either helios or fireknife pattern for the 'Els as it give good medium strength weapons or good anti MEQ

    ELITE
    Crisis Team 1 - 139
    Team Leader (TmLd/PR/MP/TA/HWMT)
    Fireknife (PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 2 - 139
    Team Leader (TmLd/PR/MP/TA/HWMT)
    Fireknife (PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 3 - 124
    Helios (PR/FB/MT)
    Helios (PR/FB/MT)

    TROOP
    Firewarrior Team 1 - 240
    12 Firewarriors
    Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DL)

    Firewarrior Team 2 - 240
    12 Firewarriors
    Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DL)

    I like all of the above

    FAST ATTACK
    Pirahna - 75 (FB/TA)

    Pirahna - 75 (FB/TA)

    Pirahna's. Hmmm. In my opionion you don't need them in this list as you have lots of anti tank. If you can find another 30 pts or so you can get a 3rd HH, which is a much better option.

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/MT/DL)

    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/MT/DL)
    I like the stock pirahna's for capturing objectives but the more I use them the less I really care for them. They just seem to have no real role that isn't already filled by other units.
    Mirage Arcana Podcast
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  4. #3
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    Please comment (including the "why's" about what you say if you could). Thanks in advance.

    HQ
    Shas'el Y'he Sha'is - 100 Centurion (PR/CIB/TA/HWMT)
    CIB is awful, your Shas'el is your most valuable unit, it has the best BS in the list give it weapons that utilise this, the low strength of the CIB makes it shockingly hard to wound anything above tgh3 (even thats 4+) take a helios or fireknife multi with TA for 97pts


    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    ELITE
    Crisis Team 1 - 139
    Team Leader (TmLd/PR/MP/TA/HWMT)
    Fireknife (PR/MP/MT)
    Lose this team and take another Shas'El with stim injectors for 117 pts (helios or fireknife multi with TA) he will be much tougher to kill and its BS will make its hit rate good, I think two Shas' Els should be compulsory and I dont know why more players dont take them, A single Shas'El is much better than a normal two man team beleive me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    Crisis Team 2 - 139
    Team Leader (TmLd/PR/MP/TA/HWMT)
    Fireknife (PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 3 - 124
    Helios (PR/FB/MT)
    Helios (PR/FB/MT)
    You now have an elites slot free if you lose the team and take the extra Shas'El, so split the Helios team up, you then get to hit two units a turn and not just the one with this team, Helios work better as lone suits anyway as they need to utilise cover to get close and single suits are much easier to hide, they are also immune to fall back through casualty loss.


    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    TROOP
    Firewarrior Team 1 - 240
    12 Firewarriors
    Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DL)

    Firewarrior Team 2 - 240
    12 Firewarriors
    Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DL)
    The Devilfish are to expensive, warfish (which is what these basically are) really need to be able to move around the field at will,if they are transporting a unit of FW they will have to stay close to them, which restricts there usefulness, I would just give em bursts and decoys for 85 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    FAST ATTACK
    Pirahna - 75 (FB/TA)

    Pirahna - 75 (FB/TA)
    Rubbish, to fragile, weapon to short ranged lose them fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/MT/DL)

    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/MT/DL)
    Again to expensive and you should not have HH close enough to any unit if possible to use an SMS, just take basic railgun, BC, multi and decoys for 165pts

    So you will have

    2 HQ Shas'els either:
    1 Fireknife or helios multi with TA for 97pts
    1 FK or HLS/MLTI/TA and Stim inj for 107pts

    1 XV8 team with:
    PR/MP/TA/HWMT and PR/MP/Multi 139pts

    2 Lone monat suits, helios multi 124pts (I would up these to TL and give them TA and HW multi for 77pts and have the +1 BS )

    2 FW units 12 strong with Shas'Ui with DF with BC and DL 215pts x 2

    3 Hammerheads with RG/BC?MLTI and DL 165 x 3

    Thats 1392 pts which leaves you with 108pts (78 if you take the upgraded XV8's) to play with, you have a good strong HQ, good elites, decent troops and brilliant heavy support,

    I would take a 10 man unit of Kroot and use them to infiltrate, this would fit the theme of your list and add some extra flexibilty. if you have the 108 pts I would add 6 kroot hounds for a bit of CC punch.
    By making the changes I recommend you will have a much, much harder hitting list, the Shas'Els will really help and the Hammerhead will be so much more usfull than two pirahnas, you wont miss the SMS and the Kroot would help.
    Hope that helps.
    1984

  5. #4
    Wolf Lord JohnPublic's Avatar
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    I agree with Riki concerning your elites and HQ. Two 97 point fireknife El's are the way to go and the 77 point fireknife / helios Monats are golden. However I would probably drop one or possibly both down into a deathrain. They are invaluable for taking out transports early in the game when your rails are gunning for larger targets.

    I also agree that you could benefit greatly from a single 10 kroot unit. Their pushback / speedbump abilities are worth so much more than the 70 points you'll pay for them.

    Again I think Rikimaru has hit the mark concerning the devilfish. With BC and DL 85 points are more than enough to sink into these.

    Lastly, I would heed his advice and drop the pirahnas. However I would not try to squeeze in a third hammerhead in their place. Rather I think a BASS team (2 Broadsides, 2 shield drones) would better fill your third heavy slot. I know that crashes down on the purely mech list, but I like to have a solid firebase in the middle of things and nothing is more solid than these. Hammerheads tend to miss at the most inopportune moments, a pair of broadsides do not. That said I'm not sure you have the points for them without dropping something entirely, and a third railhead never hurt.

    Concerning the loadout of the hammerheads I like the 180 point set-up. In a perfect world you would be able to keep these fat babies more than 24" from your opponent, but it just doesn't happen. As early as turn 3 you'll be able to shoot the SMS's almost every turn, and they're ability to fire without LOS is well worth the 15 extra points. And look at it this way: If your hammerheads are alive and not within 24" of an opponent and it's turn four or later, you're probably winning.

    Overall I think the largest single improvement you could make to the list is to fit in a single 10 man unit of infiltrating kroot. If you do nothing else, drop one pirahna for them.
    Last edited by JohnPublic; August 25th, 2006 at 03:03.
    "A word to the wise is infuriating." - Hunter Thompson

    Projects: Warhammer 40k: Checkmate & JohnPublic's Board

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    Thanks guys for all of your responses! They were both informative & helpful. I've made changes to the list below, taking in a bunch of your ideas.

    @ JohnPublic
    I did not add kroot because, well, I don't like them (Fluff-wise or Model-wise). I understand how important they are to a good GT list, but this isn't my GT list, so unless I'm playing in a super-competative area, I won't take them. But you were right on with that comment, of course. I also can't find a way to fit the 195 pt BASS unit into the list, hence the Skyray alternative.

    @ rikimaru
    I love my warfish. Those 7 extra BS 4 shots have saved the lives of my rapid-firing FWs so many times its not even funny. I do admit it's 120 pts that doesn't score, but I love the abilitiy to leave the skimmer behind cover and fire at my enemies 4 times from 24" away. It frustrates them and I love that ability more than points efficiency at times. In a similar vein, the HHs stay where they are, too. Where I play, 24" almost is always hitting something, even if it is a vehicle they barely have a chance to scratch. I almost always get to shoot them first round (normally at infiltrators) as I move 12" somewhere else. But again, it's really good advice to think about... You were right on with the crisis, and I've made changes accordingly. What I really would like to do would be to come up with 15 pts to make the Shas'El a Shas'O (for fluff reasons), but I sadly can't find the 15 pts.

    HQ
    Shas'El Y'he Sha'is - 100 (CIB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    Shas'El (Needs a name, help?) - 97 (FB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    ELITE
    Crisis Team 1 - 139 (TmLd/MP/PR/TA/HWMT & PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 2 - 77 (TmLd/FB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    Crisis Team 3 - 77 (TmLd/FB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    TROOP
    Mounted Firewarriors - 240 (12 Firewarriors & 1 Warfish (SMS/TA/DL/MT))

    Mounted Firewarriors - 240 (12 Firewarriors & 1 Warfish (SMS/TA/DL/MT))

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/DL/MT)

    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/DL/MT)

    Skyray- 165 (SMS/TA/DL/MT)

    TOTAL: 1495
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  7. #6
    Wolf Lord JohnPublic's Avatar
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    I see you kept the CIB on your namesake. I'm curious; why keep it? I don't mean for this to sound harsh, I really am curious as to whether it is a fluff reason, a modeling issue, or that you just like its performance.

    Also, the skyray is an interesting choice. I have never fielded a skyray, but it seems it might be slightly less effective in an army that contains no other markerlights. Obviously it can mark for itself, but doing so its range is a limited 36". Depending on how badly you want those 15 points you might consider switching it to an ionhead.
    "A word to the wise is infuriating." - Hunter Thompson

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  8. #7
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    Ah... the infamous CIB... I know Rikimaru hates the thing, and a lot of camps are swearing it off, but I've had great (and I mean great) success with the thing.

    The range is the key for me. I've found that when I get within 12" to shoot, my crisis tend to die (not because of a game reason, just because I normally mess up with range and distance and such). So, for my playstyle, the 18" range works really well (and I can push it to 12" when I need to, but I don't feel I have to very often). If I have the FB, I feel I need to use it, and often do dumb stuff to get into range (again, just me, not the suit). With the CIB, I push to get into 18" range, not 12" range, and that seems to make all of the difference for me staying alive.

    I admit it isn't as versatile against verhicles (actually it won't effect any), but that's for the other Shas'el & Helios suits anyway. I always seem to kill at least one marine (even if you wound on a 5+), and coupled with the PR makes it kill two, at least. Plus rolling 6 dice at 18" is really intimidating.

    And the skyray... I love the tank, but I don't know if it's good enough/fits into the list. I might just go with an ionhead... let me think about it, though. Good advice. Thanks a bunch for the help on the lists. I'll post a new one Monday and let you know how this one did on Saturday. I can't rep you again, or I would.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    "I told you, it's not Pink! It's Light Red!" Donut on his new power-armor.

  9. #8
    Mr. Tau onlainari's Avatar
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    It seems I've double posted.
    Last edited by onlainari; August 28th, 2006 at 15:52.
    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post
    You have the option for instance of infiltrating, outflanking, pillboxing, or anti assault.


    And that's just with the Kroot.

  10. #9
    Mr. Tau onlainari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is
    HQ
    Shas'El Y'he Sha'is - 100 (CIB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    Shas'El (Needs a name, help?) - 97 (FB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    ELITE
    Crisis Team 1 - 139 (TmLd/MP/PR/TA/HWMT & PR/MP/MT)

    Crisis Team 2 - 77 (TmLd/FB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    Crisis Team 3 - 77 (TmLd/FB/PR/TA/HWMT)

    TROOP
    Mounted Firewarriors - 240 (12 Firewarriors & 1 Warfish (SMS/TA/DL/MT))

    Mounted Firewarriors - 240 (12 Firewarriors & 1 Warfish (SMS/TA/DL/MT))

    HEAVY SUPPORT
    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/DL/MT)

    Hammerhead - 180 (RG/SMS/TL/DL/MT)

    Skyray- 165 (SMS/TA/DL/MT)

    TOTAL: 1495
    This could be an excellent list, however as it is it's pretty average. You need at least 2 units of kroot. You need shield drones on your crisis. And the skyray is a bad choice.

    Reasons: It's just from experience.

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...61-post14.html
    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post
    You have the option for instance of infiltrating, outflanking, pillboxing, or anti assault.


    And that's just with the Kroot.

  11. #10
    Wolf Lord JohnPublic's Avatar
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    So, Monday came and went with no update. What's the good word?
    "A word to the wise is infuriating." - Hunter Thompson

    Projects: Warhammer 40k: Checkmate & JohnPublic's Board

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