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Right, yet again, it is most likely that I am going to be up against the usual Tyranid/Imperial Guard Cultists.
2000 points per army, and my ally will no doubt the Space Marines.
Usually I go XV8 suit heavy but this time I want a bit of a change. Here is my proposal. Advice is strongly welcomed.
XV8 Shas'el w/ Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array, H/W Multi-tracker
2 Squads of 12
Warfish w/ SMS, Decoy Launchers & Targetting Array
1 Squads of 15
1 Squad of 14
1 Squad of 6
Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker & Decoy Launchers
Oh and its Cities of Death
Last edited by Mystweaver; October 18th, 2006 at 11:52.
Hmmm... first off, your hammerhead is illegal. Sorry to say, you have to at least take Burst Cannons, which puts it at 165, the minimal skin and bones Railhead.
Which puts your points at 1012 But ok.
Your stealth team is good, but it's huge. I'm not experienced in Cities of Death, but you may have a problem with getting all of your guys to have line of site, and moreover it's just a big fat target for assaulting. Especially against Tyranids. It's the single biggest unit you have, and also it's got the most points tied up in it. You'll hit first in close combat no matter what, but this is Tyranids we're talking about. I don't know what all they have, but if it's cities of death and they have some form of frag grenade they'll take it. That means they're hitting even with you. You have (At MOST) 24 attacks at a WS of 2, with strengths 4-3. You won't be doing much in close combat, ever.
So my suggestion, lose the drones. They are great units, but they just focus too much in that one squad.
Well that leaves you with 120 points to play with. I personally would like to see one of those firewarrior squads get a devilfish. I've heard great things coming from Cities of Death involving the 'fish. Fly up on top of a building, then deploy your guys out and your suddenly on higher ground and in a better position to fight. If they try and come up the building, load the boys back up and off you go. Great stuff.
That leaves 40 points. Definitely got to have a decoy launcher, and I say multi-tracker as well. Then you have twentyfive. I think Smart Missiles Systems are brilliant in these kinds of conditions where the enemy is likely going to hide behind line of sight terrain. Suddenly it doesn't matter. So give the fish that, and for the full Warfish feel throw on the Targetting Array as well.
Also, you're Helios commander is misplaced I think. Cities of Death gives lots of cover saves, or so I've heard. Besides, it's Tyranids and Imps. You don't NEED that extra AP, so I suggest giving it either a Missile Pod (Two extra shots at almost any range with str 7, brilliant) or maybe if you can shift out the points an Airbusting Fragmention Projector. If you think that the other players will be depending on cover saves, leaving their's at a 5+ this is a -real- nasty surprise. Otherwise, it's cool if you don't want to have to rely on line of sight, but it's a bit risky at 18 inches (or 24 if you include the jump back move). If they'll have a 4+ save though don't even bother with it. Definitely a missile pod though. Maybe if the above is true an AFP and MP combo could work? Though you'd be dreadfully short of low ap shots...
Is that what the Shas'El's purpose is, providing shots against MCs and such? If so, I'd be careful, because those MCs will eat your Helios if they can get close enough. Literally. And watch out if they put them in cover. There is nothing worse than that.
I hope this advice helps. I've never really gotten into a cities of death game, and the above is just what I've picked up, but I still hope it helps out!
I think Ill keep my commander as he is for that reason - also, the Nid player often tanks his Carnifex's up with str 7 and a 2+ save....
While we're on the subject, what kind of mission is it? Take and Hold or something?
Because I've been giving it some thought, and unless you need bodies on the ground to hold and objective you may find the points spent on the Kroot better applied elsewhere.
As you have them, they are decent as an assault unit and better as a pillbox. However, I feel you definitely need some extra firepower in the list, or perhaps make the Kroot better in CC, or just making the overall list more mobile.
The first involves dropping one or both of the Kroot squads. You could use those points to get a second Railhead, and then if you lose a firewarrior from one of your squads you could take a Monat Crisis with Twinlinked Fusion Blasters and a Blacksun filter. That could up your firepower and low-ap shots. Or you could take another squad of stealths, but I don't recommend that really. It'll give you some volume of fire, just as much as the Kroot actually for the point cost, unless you count rapid fire range. Their hopping abilities might prove useful as well. The last option would be to take a couple of 77 point Monat Team Leaders. Either as Helios or Fireknives, or perhaps one of both, and you could fit in the same TwinFusion suit from above in this as a Team as well. This'll lesson the burdon on your commander and give you more low ap shots, and give your opponent more suits to chase, though... You'll be losing overall anti-infantry firepower so it depends on how your opponent plays. Lots of horde, the only option I'd take from above is the Railhead one, or MAYBE the Stealth, but it would be risky. It's more MCs and tanks, then you might try for these. Just my opinion though.
The second is simply dropping the extras from both squads till their both at ten and then putting 10 Kroot hounds in one of the Squads. This way you'll be able to hit at least even with most Tyranids, even after the first round of assault. Just my preference though.
The third means dropping a unit of Kroot (And maybe a couple from the other group), and using the points to buy eith another warfish, or just a plain Devilfish, this one with just Decoy Launchers, so both Firewarrior squads can keep up with everything else.
Don't feel like I'm trying to turn your list into one of mine, that's not really what I'm trying to do... Well, it sort of is, but I'm merely trying to suggest new ideas for your consideration. Don't feel obligated to take any of this advice, because it's simply advice. I'm shooting in the dark because I don't know your opponent's lists and tendancies. But regardless I hope these ideas lead to something productive for you.
Whats the ratio again for Kroot? How many hounds in one squad can you take? is it 12?
If so Im thinking of going 10 kroot and 12 hounds. That way the majority init is 5. If this is going to be the case, there is a good chance i will infiltrate them and assault the guard forces (for the most part, the nids should be held up by the marines).
Im trying to steer away from Crisis suits this time around. Normally I would happy change my list to include more suits but I'm going against guards supreme amount of hoard firepower and want to counter it with some of my own.
More kroot = more bolters to shoot at guard with. They will almost exclusively be holding up in a building somewhere... possibly fortified for the 3+ cover save.
Might drop kroot and take more firewarriors, but im not fancying dropping any units for more fish.
Your advice is however appreciated and I shall take it into consideration in my other lists (Which are full of crisis suits)
Also, in hand to hand, there isnt a majority initiative... it works down in order of initiative does it not?
i.e. 10 Kroot, 9 Kroot hounds vs 10 Haumagaunts (or whatever they are.
Kroot Init 3, Hounds Init 5 Haum Init 5
So Hounds and Haum strike similtaniously then the kroot strike?
If this isnt the case, then in the example of a terminator squad with powerfists, you could give 2 powerfists and 3 lightning claws and the powerfists would not strike on one as the majority initiative is four....?
No, the only time there is majority initiative is when calculating Sweeping Advance results. Otherwise units hit in initiative order. So against a normal space marine squad, Kroot hounds would hit first (I5), Space Marines would hit back (I4), then the Kroot would hit (I3).
Then if there is a tie the two tied units would hit simulatneously.
Hope this helps.
Sitting here bored at work, I have thought of another option to purely cut into the IG ranks.
There will no doubt be a lot of men hanging about. The IG MIGHT take a few chimeras. But either way, here is my cunning plan.
Here in lies some Crisis suits that will no doubt cause certain people to shout "NO NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU CRAZY PERSON", but well, I wanna have a little fun and cause maximum carnage. The IG player almost ALWAYS fields 3 or 4 battalions of men along the edge of the battlefield and well... i want to burn them.
Burst Cannon, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Targetting Array, Multi-tracker
Burst Cannon, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Targetting Array, Multi-tracker
6 Firewarriors, Team Leader, Markerlight
6 Firewarriors, Team Leader, Markerlight
6 Stealth Suits
12 Gun Drones
2 XV8 Shas'ui
4 Gun Drones
2 XV8 Shas'ui
4 Gun Drones
1 Hammerhead Tank
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Decoy Launchers
Vs. Light Infantry
Stealth infiltrate at rear or right in front of the line of guard, open fire.
Crisis suits & HQ advance behind, gun drones open fire when within 18", next turn, time to burn some flesh.
Firewarriors sit 30" away and take pop shots and light things up with markerlights. Perhaps increase BS for the stealths or decrease Ld for all those pinning tests.
Hammerhead sticks submunitions into some guard to blow gaping holes here and there.
Stealth's get around the back and ping the crap out of em.
Hammerhead pops a cap or two!
Problems: He WILL have quite a few heavy weapons. Hopefully the drones will provide a buffer zone of casualties.
The IG allies are Nids... if they come my way, I could get stuck between a rock and a hard place - but I also hope my Terminator Ally will be causing them enough grief for me not to have to worry.
Its a bit crazy, a little cheesy but well... it looks like it shall be quite fun and unlike any other army I have put together.
For the points, the CIB is doing 8 shots a round that are hitting on a 2+... I think they will easily make its points.
For the AFP, 3 shots and 1 large blast marker hitting also on 2+... should cause some massive distruction. Again, I feel it will make up its points and kill enough puny manlings.
The firewarriors will be providing essential harrassment fire and markerlight support.
For the equivalent points the fire warriors are outnumbered 2:1 but have the range advantage and will form a firebase line at maximum range. I have no intention of getting them into rapid fire range unless things go bad. In which case they will push forward or rapid fire advancing nids.
Stealths vs Guard. 300 points.
He has around 50 men, so thats 50 lasrifle shots - I have majority 4+ save
I have 30 shots, 12 are pinning. He gets no save
He has around 16 men or one heavy weapons team + bits. Autocannons & Hvy Bolters allow the suits a save but will chew through drones. He will have a few commanders with Plasma gun. If hit - bye bye suits (though its not an insta death weapon).
I have 8 advancing pinning shots. They will be concentrated on the squad with the commander as will any markerlights to reduce Ld. Once close enough, the flamers WILL do their job. I will probably assault after to mop up (if I have much left)
This will either get smashed by heavy weapons teams or earthshakers or will cause some serious damage to the IG tanks and men. Always worth the points. It will stick at the back corner of the table hopefully out of range of the heavy weapons teams.
Overall it's a list that is very weak to attacks by transports and tanks due to your lack of anti-tank weaponry. That's fine if he's going light on tanks. Don't count on hitting rear armor with stealths unless your opponent is just a terrible player.
Like I've mentioned earlier, the stealths are a big liability here. Both heavy bolters and template weapons can cut through them since your 4+ save is in the majority.
Last edited by mephistophales; November 15th, 2006 at 19:46.
Ask yourself why in the world would you trust a win loss record? Playing them yourself is the only way to tell.
The true joy in the game is playing down to the last model, no matter the odds.
They will cut through the drones, not the stealths. Mixed armour rules will allow for the drones to effectively "soak up" shots. Once the drones get lower in number then stealths, the squad starts to get saves against such weapons. Should they fail, the stealths that have lost both drones will be taken off (leaving 5 Stealths with 5 drones)...
With regard to hitting the 10 rear armour, it shouldnt be too hard as the stealths will most probably get in behind the IG anyway. If any tanks turn to face, they will become vulnerable at some point...
Like I said though, its just a bit of a crazy-fun idea that I might try out :w00t: