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Just tinkering s'more.. I always have two list variants, and I wanted to try something new:
 Warp Beasts
+Splinter Cannon x2
+Splinter Cannon x2
+Dark Lance x2
+Dark Lance x2
Total Points: 1848
Total Models: 103
Total Vehicles: 7
Thoughts? I actually really like this list..
Quite a nice list.
I have one small bit of criticsm/advice. Consider giving the dracon agoniser, pistol and hellmask instead of punisher + t-helm. you're not using drugs so the S5 lord is out of the question, this means that you'er only better off against T3 and less and most of those are not so dangerous that you need that one extra kill. The agoniser + mask means that big guys actually do have something to worry about and may think twice before counter charging you're expensive incubi.
Consider this situation. you're against playing tyrandis/chaos/necrons/eldar. Your lord and incubi are happily slashing through guants/marines/warriors/guardians, but there is a carnifex/demonprince/c'tan/wraithlord 18" or so away. Would you rather be able to maybe kill one extra rank and file guy but be more or less defenseless against the big who is confidently running straight at you with instantkilling intent, or kill one less small guy but make that big guy think that maybe he can spend his time fighting something that can't hurt him (like your cheap warriors) and leave your incubi alone.
I find the hellmask works better as a psycological tool than an actual in game piece or wargear. Let your opponent know exactly what it does, let them know that since it's a Ld check and not morale synapse/mob-size/fearless/stubborn don't do anything. The thought of a 200+ point, 6A hive tyrant ending up with likely only 1 hit then dieing to an agoniser can have a pretty big effect if you put this thought into your opponents mind ealy on.
Thats my 2 cents. Nice list otherwise.
Last edited by Bugs_n_Orks; November 11th, 2006 at 16:40.
The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. Bring them understanding of the power of ourselves through our strength and their fear. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all fragments will be smashed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be consumed
Pretty solid list mate. You use a lot of the same squads that I use. In fact, you use the same HQ squad, same wych squad (except I gave them plasma grenades), same sniper squad (like there's any other), same Raider squads, and same Ravagers. Great minds think alike, eh?
Seriously though, my points is that you've generally stuck to the tried and true squads. I haven't tried any of those bigger footslogging squads, and I'd wonder if they'll ever get to use their Blasters, but they're not bad. And the Warp Beast squad is always a steal as far as I'm concerned.
I have no suggestions for improvement really.
(Oh, and I like your cheap HQs, well done, so many tooled up Archons around these days)
You have what it takes to achieve victory with this list that is for sure. There are little room to improve this list at all.
Although dropping one of the footslogging warrior units for another Ravager with dizzies is tempting... but it might however make you look unsporting in certain tournaments envoirments. Personally I dont find it be overpowered but some do!
Whatever path you decide to take, I wish you good luck in the tournament! May you crush all opposition and drag them into the night.
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
Its an ok list.
I dont care for double incubi retinue, gimmicky and slow. Without the shadowfield and combat drugs those Dracons are a little better than a Sybarite. They cant fleet and the lords are restricted to the retinue and cant break free (unless all the incubi are dead). They will most likely kill what you point them at (if you can get them close enough) but once they are down they are sitting ducks. I dont see the plasma for the Incubi so they will be hitting last and if you play against any seasoned veteran then you will be charging them into cover and only your lord with the plasma will hit first - you are wasting one of the DE most prized stats of high initiative, you must hit first and hit HARD.
Same goes to the wyches, they need plasma. Nothing better than getting that 12" charge drug and ignoring cover advantages. Yes, there is a chance they will get the "always strike first" drug and feel that you wasted 1 point for plasma (or 10 points for the squad) but I think that is easily worth it. I think I would add another wych squad if you intend of using incubi. Wych squads are one of the fastest assault squads in the game and if you drop the 2nd Dracon and Incubi for a Dracite and a wych squad (separate units) then you can place the Dracite on the wych raider and now you have freedom with that Dracite. That Dracite (with combat drugs) can move 12" on the wych raider, disembark for 2", fleet for D6" and then charge for 12" - and with plasma then nobody is safe in cover. Don't forget he's got a 4+ invulnerable dodge which is better than a +5 armor save and dont think you can hide the dracon in the incubi squad in CC - if I was playing against that squad I would be sure to target the Dracon with the 5+ save.
The warrior fire base is fantastic and highly encouraged. If you need points, you can scavange them here.
The ravagers are fine - I prefer at least one dark lance in each for that extra anti-tank punch. Disintegrators are okay but strength 7 gets old when they bounce off the medium tanks.
If you are insistant on running 2 squads of incubi then I would strongly recommend the following:
Plasma for both retinues and the wyches and Combat drugs for both Dracons
Also plan on hiding those raiders with the incubi, if they get hit in the 1st turn then I doubt they will see any real action being entangled for one turn then foot-slogging across the board 6" per turn - I hope your raiders all look alike.
If I had to play this list I would drop one sniper squad and pick up 2 portals. Put the portals into the larger warrior squads and put the wyches and the 2 lords in the warp. This would be a much better use of your list and at least I can be pretty certain the 2 lords would jump into action straight out of the warp and not be shot blitzing up the board.
Just my 2 cents.
Regardless of a player being a seasoned veteran, I highly doubt they will be able to put 100% of the Incubi's targets into cover. The Plasma Grenades on the Dracons are just there because I had extra points. My main enemies are Tau, Eldar, and Space Marines (with not-ultra-souped-up-HQ's) so I'm not too worried about the CC parts.
As far as the hiding the Raiders - that's common sense, and should be applied to pretty much any army.
As far as the portals.... no way. That's pretty much shifting the entire playstyle of this list into a WWP army. I know how to make those, and I don't want to have one.
Thanks for the comments, everyone.
Not quite sure how to respond, somehow I dont think you have used incubi much. If you got it all figured out then why ask for responses from a different perspective? Didnt mean to upset you I thought you wanted different advice other than "thats a great list".
No worries, you'll have fun with it :yes:
No, I haven't used Incubi much, and I do appreciate the various perspectives, I just don't like people suggesting changes to the overall playstyle of the list. I've dwelled on these forums for some time, and a fair amount of that time in the DE forum, so I know when I want a specific sort of list - if I had wanted a WWP army, I'd have made one. Admittedly, I don't know the greatest way to make 'em, but the idea is easy enough to grasp. I just didn't want one.
I understand your points with the Plasma Grenades, but there just aren't enough points for 'em, and again.. cover issues. In all the times I've watched people play, or have played myself, I've never seen hardly anything get assaulted in cover.. and nothing that could down a squad of Incubi, or Wyches, with any ease at all (usually shooty squads sitting in cover around here).
No worries, I wasn't upset, and I apologise for looking like I was jumping on your case over the WWP thing.
You know your opponents best, if they don't use cover then bully for you not having to spend points on Plasma. We are always assaulting each other in or through cover, plasma is essential to all HQ and wyche squads.
I'd rate the list mediocre to low for a tourney composition score with so many identicle units and I don't believe two Dracons would co-head a task force. I second the suggestion to take and Archon+Incubi/Drachite+retinue combination, it gets you two wych squads without actually taking 2 identical elite choices.
You definately have enough lances and anti tank, no worries there. Good anihorde with some Cannons on foot and the Raider squads can double as gunboats in a pinch. I would agree that you may have a probelm with a lack of durable Agonizer units. Assuming you throw the wyches and a Raider squad at MCs/DPs etc they will just target the Warriors and drive them off quickly then you are down to 1 agonizer. Against a S10 T6 W5 Fex or a DP with 4++ who ignores the first wound 1 Agonizer won't get you very far.
But as you say your opponents aren't Nids and don't tool up thier units.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
If you are still interested, this is how I think the list will have some problems thus explaining why I answered the way I did the first time. I understand you arent mad - I'm not mad either
I do believe the incubi are slow (I understand that you dont think so). Once they touch down they are slower than a Talos. At least a Talos gets to ignore difficult terrain but the incubi have no such luck. If your opponent is smart he will move surrounding units out of charge distance and leave your incubi stranded once the incubi "polished off" their target. As I have experienced they are good for one attack and after that they are only moving 6" and charging 6" if they dont get pulverized by every gun in the game - they are bad @sses and everyone knows that.
Yes, Raiders are the best transports in the game for at least one turn. Remember that if they have moved more than 6" they will crash on a 4+ glance. In my lists they have one purpose and if they survive their one function then the rest they do is gravy. Their job is to transport their cargo 12" one time and on the turn they are on the table- thats it. If the enemy is beyond charging distance of their cargo then you either advance and drop the cargo off in cover or (and this is a big and rare "or") I find a place on the board where no one has line of sight to the full raider. Its not hard to draw a line of sight to something as big as a raider and their is a strong possibility the enemy will eventually find a way to shoot it.
In a raider rush army - I would be thinking that your incubi will be spending more than one turn on a raider. Unless you are going against a charging enemy the incubi will most likely be out of their charge range. That is why I was suggesting another wych squad, they have the best range (especially with the 12" charge drug). You will have to manuver your incubi raiders so they dont get shot so expect to lose the other raiders - if you can advance 5 raiders without any of them being in line of sight then you are a better general than I. I use distraction by advancing empty raiders forward to give my enemy something to shoot at rather than full raiders when I play a "rush" list.
As for the portal army - sorry, I didnt know that you didnt want to hear that, you didnt mention that you didnt want to use a portal, shadowfield and combat drugs. I can understand not wanting a portal but saying the shadowfield and combat drugs are "boring" and over used is actually kinda weird (although, I can see where it becomes refreshing and noble). The only times I have seen someone not take those things is because they were either trying to keep their wargear cost down because of some list evaluation point system or they forgot to include one. You put yourself at a disadvantage but then you take 10 incubi to cover up for it. At my store, taking that many incubi is considered power-gaming more than taking the shadowfield or drugs - which leads to my "gimmick" remark.
I should have explained why I mentioned the list as gimmicky - at my store there are 2 other DE players that take 10 incubi with 2 lords with an incubi master in one and Drahzar in the other (and they use the field and drugs too), they are power gamers for sure. When I saw this list I didnt see it as something different so its not something new. I should not have said that but to me its just another list with 10 incubi regardless that there is no shadowfield or drugs.
Plasma. Its a necessary point cost worth reducing the troop size to obtain in my eyes. Everyone at my store uses cover and so do I. If your opponents arent using cover like you say they aren't then no worries (I just didnt know that).
Let us know how it performs, I am sure it will do well.