New Eldar player List help. Opinions and insight needed - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Member TacJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Saskatoon SK Canada!
    Age
    32
    Posts
    79
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    New Eldar player List help. Opinions and insight needed

    Heya guys.
    I'm a Space Marine player who plays a mainly Asaulty list. However with the new Eldar dex out and my friend selling me a good portion of his Eldar, I'm getting my space elf groove on.

    Since I play an SM assault army, I wanted my Eldar to be Ranged.
    I wrote this list using the new Codex, threads I've read here and my, unfortunetly limited, experience with fighting Eldar. I also did it in a sort of backwards way, I looked through the dex and picked out the units that I thought would work best/I liked regardless of point totals. As such it's a 1700 list that I need opinions and advice on how to shrink it down to 1500, 1000 and 500 point levels.

    HQ
    Farseer
    Runes of Witnessing
    Spirit Stones
    Doom
    Guide
    =130

    Elites
    6 Harlequin Troupe
    Harlequin's Kiss *5
    Death Jester
    =138

    Troops
    10 Dire Avengers
    Exarch, Two Shuriken Catapults
    Defend
    Bladestorm
    =167

    10 Dire Avengers
    Exarch, Two Shuriken Catapults
    Defend
    Bladestorm
    =167

    5 Rangers
    Pathfinder upgrade
    =120

    5 Rangers
    Pathfinder upgrade
    =120

    Heavy Support
    5 Dark Reapers
    Tempest Launcher
    Crack Shot
    =205

    3 War Walker Squadron
    Starcannons
    Spirit Stones
    =150

    Fire Prism
    Shuriken Cannon
    Spirit Stones
    Holo-Fields
    =170

    Fast Attack
    Shining Spears
    Exarch, Star Lance
    Skilled Riders
    Withdraw
    =237

    Viper
    Shuriken Cannon
    Bright Lance
    Spirit Stones
    =85

    =1699

    The basic tactic is to use the Dire Avengers as a main fire base as well as a screen for the War Walkers and Dark Reapers. The Farseer will be of course casting Doom and Guide as the army focuses on single squads.

    There are problems that even I'm seeing off the bat.

    1)It's decidedly weak in the Anti-Vehicle range, depending on the Fire Prisim and the lone Viper for the majoraty of the AV firepower.

    I am aware of the tactic of a squad of 6 Firedragons in a Falcon, however I'm not too keen on cutting down the firepower of my Heavy support by dropping the WW, Reapers or Prism to accomidate it. Can it be taken as a dedicated transport without using a Heavy support slot? Or does it's benift outway the loss of one of my three choices?

    2) It's pretty static. The army I'm invisioning is predomiantly going to be sitting and shooting with possibly a little movement in the begining to get in range with only the Shining Spears jetting about to cause havoc and clean up squads that had survived the onslought.
    I'm not sure if it's much of a problem but I am used to having a highly mobile army, it just feels a bit wierd. :p

    3) Harlequins. I'm not sure about these guys. I wanted a good counter-charge unit and the Scorpions looked ideal but the Death Jester and his long ranged Shrieker Cannon would be albe to contribute to the ranged battle rather than having the squad just sit there useless if no one assaults.

    That's what I have guys. What's your take on it?

    People who don't know how to use artillery are using artillery, and that scares me. -TacJack
    Bring out the Bikes!

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Prowling LO, looking for fresh meat.
    Posts
    4,571
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    476 (x8)

    I would say you definitely want a shadowseer instead of a death jester in the harlies. It makes them difficult to kill and they will be a priority target for your opponent. As a combat unit, they won't need that death jester much.

    And you've got the War walkers wrong - they have to take two weapons, which will bump their price up significantly.

    You might want to consider dumping them and getting fire dragons in a wave serpent (with TL bright lances) to get you the AT you want - falcons are only ever heavy support (only the wave serpent is listed as a transport).

    I think you could make it more mobile - but only at the expense of your combat troops. But with such a relatively static army, you probably don't want to take them out.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Scorpion_062's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Washington, United States
    Posts
    340
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    12 (x1)

    A few things to consider:

    1) The scorpions are the Eldars main counter charge squad. Harlies are made for moving up to close combat. They can move through cover fairly easily, and they have an invulnerable save. Harlequins Kiss on every model can be expensive for what it actually does. You DEFINATELY want a shadow seer, and you may want to consider a troup leader two for his higher leadership an his ability to take a power weapon.
    2) You may not want defend on your Dire Avenger squads as you can simply move them slowly backwards to get extra turns of shooting in. The only time this would be a problem is if you were faced with a fast moving squad, and then you can always use bladestorm.
    3) Tempest Launcher isn't worth it. Drop it and Crack Shot and take an Eldar Missle Launcher with Fast Shot.
    4) Take two Scatter Lasers on each War Walker. They have a high strength shot that can thin hordes or force enough saves on Marines to kill quite a few. Also, I don't think Spirit Stones are of much use on a 3 man War Walker Squadron.
    5)Take a Scatter Laser, Starcannon, or Shuriken Cannon on your Viper. It has a relatively low BS so Brightlances won't be as effective.

    Reaper Exarch with Missile Launcher can help with tanks, and so can the War Walkers. With that many shots, they can still get quite a few glancing hits on vehicles with lower armor.
    You can take a Wave Serpent as a dedicated transport for Fire Dragons to increase your anti armor ability.
    "What do Humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea."
    - Farseer Eldrad Ulthran of Craftworld Ulthwe

  5. #4
    Member TacJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Saskatoon SK Canada!
    Age
    32
    Posts
    79
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    Ok, what would you guys suggest? Keep the Harliquin's with a Shadowseer or take the Scorpions?

    Hmm, I didn't know that about the War Walkers, that option of the Wave Serpent and Firewarriors is looking better.

    If I drop the War Walkers and bring in the Firewarriors mounted in the Serpent would that be a better idea than the setup I have now?

    I've also taken your guy's suggestions and updated the list to show what it would look like.
    The Viper's been removed but with the changes, I'm 20 points over 1700.
    Also, do you guys have any ideas as to what would fit in with point level lists lower than this one?

    HQ
    Farseer
    Runes of Witnessing
    Spirit Stones
    Doom
    Guide
    =130

    Elites
    Striking Scorpions 6
    Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Biting Blade
    Stalking
    =133

    Fire Dragons 6
    Exarch, Fire Pike
    Tank Hunters
    =131

    Troops
    Dire Avengers 10
    Exarch, Two Shuriken Catapults
    Bladestorm
    =152

    Dire Avengers 10
    Exarch, Two Shuriken Catapults
    Bladestorm
    =152

    Rangers 5
    Pathfinder upgrade
    =120

    Heavy Support
    Falcon
    Shuriken Cannon
    Bright Lance
    Spirit Stones
    =165

    Fire Prism
    Shuriken Cannon
    Spirit Stones
    Holo-Fields
    =170

    Fire Prism
    Shuriken Cannon
    Spirit Stones
    Holo-Fields
    =170

    Fast Attack
    Shining Spears 5
    Exarch, Star Lance
    Skilled Riders
    Withdraw
    =237

    ==1560
    Last edited by TacJack; November 20th, 2006 at 09:42. Reason: Updated the list
    People who don't know how to use artillery are using artillery, and that scares me. -TacJack
    Bring out the Bikes!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Scorpion_062's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Washington, United States
    Posts
    340
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    12 (x1)

    Fire Prisms work extremely well in pairs. You might want to consider including a second one or using a falcon instead. You can probably shave a few points off your list to include another one.
    The Fire Dragon Exarch probably doesn't need Crack Shot.
    The Dire Avenger Exarchs probably don't need Defend.
    You can down grade the Pathfinders to Rangers, or only take one squad.
    "What do Humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea."
    - Farseer Eldrad Ulthran of Craftworld Ulthwe

  7. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Why do you want to know?
    Posts
    351
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    19 (x1)

    this is a pretty good list. there are just a few things i would like to point out:

    Scorpions: they NEED to be larger sized and they NEED shadow stalker. that way they can at least get intocombat. if needed you should drop the stalker and scorpions claw for it. it is costly but you should be able to get the points.

    FD: no need of krak shot(yes i know i speled it wrong)
    Heavy support: illeagal. you have four heavy support choices. dark reapers, falcon and 2 fire prisms=4. you can only have 3. drop the reapers and you now have 205 points to work with. up the size of the scorpions to 10 and get an autarch with a jetbike, laser lance, and mandiblasters. that is about 130 points if i remember correctly. that wayyou can have a really good squad of spears that reallt woop tail.

    thats my $0.02
    Zoe: Doesn't the bible say something specific about killing?
    Preacher: Yes, but it's somewhat fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.
    -Firefly

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Carlisle- England
    Age
    29
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    2 (x1)

    if your looking for a more static army why have you gone with shining spears. have been playing with the new eldar and i have also gone with a more static force. like the warwalkers with starcannons. would defo give exarch missile launcher for the reapers. wouldn't bother with a fire prism as they are rarely worth it- prefer falcon. i also take gaurdian units instead of dire avengers as you can give them starcannons/ scatter laser and the warlock can have singing spear to give you more anti-tank. i normally take a second farseer to make the shooting of my army more effective- can't argue with more re-rolls:yes:

  9. #8
    Member TacJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Saskatoon SK Canada!
    Age
    32
    Posts
    79
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    Possesed
    Hmm, would I really need a full squad of Scorpions as a counter assault squad? I mean, whatever would get through my Fire Prisms, Avengers and Pathfinders I'd assume would have taken some good losses, would it? And would they really need Shadowstalker when they're staying around my Avengers to guard them?

    Damn, I missed that. That's what I get for staying up late making lists. Thanks for catching that. I'll remove the Dark Reapers.
    With the Autarch leading my Jetbikes, you're saying that I don't need any more shooting units?

    blumely
    I've taken Shining Spears because I know from using my Space Marine army that no matter how many shooting units you have any how good they are, there's always going to be one enemy unit that's either going to survive the onslought or not be able to be hit. The Shining Spears are there to distract and distroy. Forcing your opponent to stop the unit running around his lines rather than concentrate fully on your forces that are systematicaly dismantling his is gold.

    I was thinking of taking some Guardians. I'm still not sure about them in my list though, since I've built the whole list around the use of Avengers.

    And I will be having a Falcon in the list, but I really love the look of the Prisms so they'll stay.
    People who don't know how to use artillery are using artillery, and that scares me. -TacJack
    Bring out the Bikes!

  10. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    2 (x1)

    TacJack,


    Your list is pretty good and fits in with the ideas I have about eldar army lists. The way I play eldar is have a good slower fire base with a few fast or inflitrating units to take out things that need to go away.

    I will tell you not to take guardians, they are pretty terrible now. The reason is you can no longer take them in squads of 5 with a 2 man weapon crew anymore. They must to be in squads of 10 or more and since warlocks now come with witchblades and are now more expensive it is no longer worth it to have them for conceal duty in a guardian squad (imho). For the most part conceal or embolden are really needed too, becasue almost all weapons in the 40k universe pierce that 5+ save guardians have (including bolters and pulse rifles). Also because guaridians range is only 12 inches most basic weapons from other races are better (rapid fire weapons can move and double tap now and most basic troopies from other races have rapid fire weapons). The only advantage the regular shuriken catapult has is guardians can charge after firing (but who wants their guardians and their platform charging?) I think your dire avengers and pathfinders will do a fine job.

    I have a few points that you may want to think about with some of your selection.
    Your Farseer has 2 psyhic powers one that u can you use if your within 24 inches of your opponent and one if your within 6 inches of eldar unit. This means that your farseer has to be pretty close to a shooty unti but also 24 inches from a threating unit. To me Doom is for units you really want to kill, I think putting guide on him and giving him no mobility kind of auto picks which enemy you will cast doom on. I would either give him one power, put him in the transport with some squad or on a bike (which is my favorite option, also on bike a spear wouldnt be bad because its str 9 and ur low on armour penetration).
    just something to think about. This one is totally personal preference though.


    For your striking scorpians I'd give them an exarch with Scorpian's claw and shadowstrike at the very least. You could also give them stalker too but it all depends on how many points you want to spend. I feel when you put these upgrades on them they no longer need a transport and can be really effective CC unit threating much or countering alot. I know many people probably dont like the claw but its a S6 power weapon tha cant be targeted in CC ( marine players have the same thing with Vet serg's and Pfists). One small concern with having the squad small though is if someone does shoot at you and force as many wounds as models he can force your exarch to take one save. Meaning he only needs to cause 6 wounds on toughness 3 guys(thought almost no one plays this rule from the main rule book).

    your fire dragons look great ( I am assuming they are going in a falcon?) You can put them in a waveserpent if you wish (which is cheaper and if you wanted a brighlance in the army a waveserpent or a wraithlord are the only good choices, but I kinda think lances are overpriced).

    Your troop choices are great. That is how i'd take the avengers, they really do excel at shooting. Rangers arent a bad choice either for a shooty army.

    I have one issue with your Heavy support choices. The falcon has a brightlance on it. If you want to take a falcon dont put a weapon on there with one shot, because its a pretty expensive tank and bs 3 kinda stinks. Also if you have your heart set on a falcon find a way to put holofields on them to make them really hard to kill. Personally I'd ditch the falcon and get a waveserpent with TL bright lances, a shuriken cannon and spirit stones. That tank is 10 points cheaper, frees up a hvy support choice, and has a Twin linked brightlance (though the falcon has a pulse laser over the serpent). The good thing with the wave serpent too is it more resilent than a falcon that doesnt have holo fields (since it lowers str 9 and 10 weapons to str 8 effectively giving it an arm of 14 against str 10 arm of 13 against str 9). I know it might seem wierd to put a squad of 6 dragons in a serpent, but that doesnt mean u cant do it.

    Shining spears do ok, though I thought u wanted a shooty list.


    Well there are my in opinions, unfortunately most cost you a few more points so I dont expect you to fit all of them in. The choice to do any of it is ultimately yours though. Tell us how you fair later on.
    Last edited by infamousrice; November 20th, 2006 at 10:36.

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Why do you want to know?
    Posts
    351
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    19 (x1)

    the purpose( atleats IMO) of sorpions is to get behind enemy lines and reak havoc with there oh-so-better-than-marine-initiative and s4 3 attacks on the charge. few things can counter 40 something striking scorpion attacks. that way they can eliminate most of the heavy weapons threats before they threaten your war walkers and fire prisms. those things will keep you alive, man. i your autarch and spears are meant to get in there, use there s6 pwer weapns and get out before they suffer too many casualties. the reason that the autarch is therre is if you are going up against a squad of terminators than your autarch can atleast knock one out meaning that so can you might be able to bag one or two with laser lances/ shurikats/star lance. scince most terminator squads are pretty small you could easily kill what ever is left of them before there I1 pfists strike back. that is why spears and scorpions exist, to kill things before they get the chance to do some serious harm.
    Zoe: Doesn't the bible say something specific about killing?
    Preacher: Yes, but it's somewhat fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.
    -Firefly

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts