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i see tons of ppl using these weapons on their shapers. any conversion pics at all? also, i got one additional question..
for 16 guys it is 45CAN (in ontario). Plus it is like 14bucks for two hounds. to get like 110 models and whatnot for this army, how much on average have ppl paid?
oh and also, i know the trackers really have no redeaming qualities. but i like them anyways, just wondering if ppl have conversion pics or ideas about that as well?
i was going to post this in the conversion thread, but like literally no one cares about kroot it seems like. i myself dont play them. but i have always had my eye on these guys, and figured i would get more of a response here.
any other talk about kroot in this thread for a n00b will be fine too. as i dont think i've seen any tactica written about them...
also, i recall a while back, gamesworkshop had an undead pirate army. it wasn't too popular and they phased it out. do people see this happening with the kroot as well? they would be an awesome army if gamesworkshop just developed it a bit more and made more specific models for it.
oh and last thing. lol, what do kroot do against tanks and the like? just get into close combat and eviscerate them? cause it seems like that is a bad alternative. but it also seems like it is all you have with the kroot.
To make eviscerators, I just glue two chainsword together so it forms a really big chainsaw thingy. A little trimming and GS and you've got an eviscerator
==My== first 1000 points worked out fairly well, 4 boxes of kroot, some wings (for vultures), and the occasional metal shaper to fill out the numbers. When you go bigger, it gets more expensive, but that's how most horde armies roll.
Kroot are an underdog force for sure, but as long as they have some support they'll stay afloat (much like DE at this point ).
Anyhoo, I hope that's helpful.
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a few more questions, which signature adaptations do you consider the strongest?
i was looking at it... and this is what i concluded:
Bold: good against armys that really make you take moral checks. This helps against shooty armies. because they will be shooting you so much, haveing an overall '8' leadership wont help you that much. whereas with this guy, you raise your chances of not falling back as much. at such a low cost, its not a bad idea. Also, can u JUST give this to the Shaper in the squad of say carnivors? so thta your not waisting another like 15pts or whatnot? and also can you give this to the same guy more then twice? i dont think u can. but the question is worth asking.
Chameleon: its like a 6+ inv save. at the points cost per list. seeing as how unless ur facing IG, ur never going to benefit from your save anyways, having a 13% chance of saving each guy might not be a bad idea.... its worth considering definatly. especially if ur facing a shooty orientated list, or there are not a lot of cover to be found. Do they get the save in CC????
Fast Reflexes: the reason this works so well, is because the list is mostly close combat. that beeing said, int 3 normally does not work out to ur advantage too well. but with that boost in int, you can strike relativly the same time as most armies and stand a better ground against genestealers and the like.
Nocturnal: WORST adaptation. not even in night fighting missions does this seem useful. honestly, from what i gather about kroot, even SHOOTIER kroot lists will always have to be at LEAST 12" away from their target... which following the night fighting rules, u have almost like a 87% chance i think.... i am too tired to figure it out. but it is around there.... so dont ever take this imo. Seeing as how the kroots only non-rapidfire or melta weapon is the stormbolter, which i dont think any kroot army has used ever, this nocturnal rule would just be a waist of points.
Ork Hybrid: for an all around list, this is amazing. it makes them that much more tougher. they will be harder to hit by 13% for 2pts (roughtly speaking i think, like i said, its late and im tired, i may be wrong).... this makes them able to stand up to more beatings. even if they dont have a save to back it up. from what i can tell, this works just as well as Chameleon. just comparing the two, this is a tad better, as with more toughness you will have to take less saves, theoretically. and with chameleon, it is only ever useful if u are not in cover.
Sixth Sense: when facing sisters particularly, or a heave template orientated IG army, this is a crazy good mutation. they will kill at LEAST half the models they would have if they didnt have this. which is honestly better then having Ork Hybrid or Chameleon..... if the army does not rely heavily on ordinance, i wouldnt use this.... >.>
now i have never played kroot. and i dont pretend to be an expert on rules or tactics. because i am definatly NOT! lol... but based on what i have read and understand, this is what i would assume with all of the adaptations....
now im going to look at the totems....
Kroothawk Totem: This is almost a surething to get for your army. seeing as how you always would like to go first so that you can hopfully get a charge in (depending on unit) or get some quality shooting in, then you would want to go first. since literally most of ur army infiltrates..... this is a cook totem...
Veneration Charm: MASTER CRAFTED MELTA!?!?! LOL!!!! ok like... what more can i say really? its a great charm to use on a melta..... or even ur eviscerator.... it just works so well... its really sexy for kroot. most armies i tend not to think this. but for kroot, they really have limited things. and if u have an extra chance to hit, why not try!!!
Mark of the Favoured Child: Your master shaper should always have one. Its like the kroots idea of a rosarius!! lol... not much more i can say about this.... its just too good of an item NOT to have for ur master shaper. leadership 10 is not something you want to die easily. and this will make it so that it wont die as easy.
Surefoot Charm: If you have the hyper active adaptation, not giving this to the shaper in teh squad is silly. it will help ensure that you can get that first turn charge after infiltration. or that second turn charge if u didnt infiltrate! either way, it is amazing. it is the difference between possibly moving 1" with that fleet, or 6".... that 5" difference can mean whether u get the charge or not.... which means a lot. cause u definatly dont want genestealers to get the extra attacks for charging...
Blood of the Stalker: UMMM!! WTF!! lol.... i love this one. it totally makes things uneven. first turn, opponent gets charged by a few squads .... hyper active adaptation + blood of the stalker is a nice combo it looks like.....(in missions that allow ds i mean) ... not ONLY does it ensure you to get first turn assaults like 90% of the time.... but it also helps you with disrupting the enemies plans during the game cause you are that much closer. Also, infiltration, if u deploy in cover or whatnot (i think like 6inches in) you can deploy minimum 12" away from the enemy instead of 18"..... will this still work on that? so that instead of 12" as long as u are in enough cover, u can go 6" to 11" away? wow... that would be amazing.... lol
ok well that is what i have figured out so far from the list. all comments are really appreciated. as i have literally no experience (tho i face a few players using kroot hunters a few times, i cant say that what i have figured out is completly correct. but if anyone would like to correct me or answer my questions, that would be sweet!!!
Kroot Shaman? honestly i cant find the psychic powers for them.... i called up my bro (the one who currently has the thing) and he cant find them in teh book..... so i have no idea if it is worth trying to negotiate with my opponent to use these optional rules or not....
am i right in asuming that headhunters are terrible? the poision rule is stilly it has no good effect.... sure at the +2 for hyper active nymune, thats ok. but yah... with the points cost they will have, i can have a more effective vulture squad. or a just as effective (maybe more) squad of hounds....
why must trackers have such awesome qualitys but suck so much? honestly, they best possibility for unique converstions on the list, and they make them almost pointless to the point where they would be a waist of like 201pts+.... arg.... this kills me. they remind me like a wose, more expensive version of the rough riders. at least a squad of 10 rough riders are only like 143pts fully kitted out and can do some decent damage compared to these buggers...
anyone have any useful tips on stalker kindred? i must admit, i laugh at their names, and would consider feilding a small unit on premises of 'im going to stalk you till you give up' or some other random line that is silly... but i dont see them being useful at all.... this army was created with awesome fluff behind it.... but like... they just didnt make it as good as it should have been. oh well. i still love the space chickens!!!
(if people are wondering why i'm posting so much here, it is because i think kroot are an awesome list, and i see very little people contributing or posting a lot in these section, so i figured by posting a lot and trying to get some kinda faq or tactic established or whatnot, more ppl will be drawn to kroot, and we can come up with kooler kideas for krootness!!, just a thought)
Wow, that's a pretty good summary of our stuff, I commend you. It's always good to meet another enthusiastic kroot player. Now, let ==Me== try to address these one at a time.
For ==My== Vultures, I ordered the harpy wings from the WHFB DE range. They fit nicely and look good, but I've heard good things about Gargoyle wings and Fell Bat wings as well.
When it comes to Signature Evolutionary Adaptations, you can do 3 things:
1) Pick one to benefit you the most for this particular game, it's a good way to prepare for specific conditions/opponents and is pretty easy to change your list around to accomodate.
2) Pick one fluffwise and stick with it. I originally stuck with Sixth Sense for ==My== psyker kroot, but I decided to shift focus from psychic powers (them's dangerous) and more to "mind over matter" and willpower sort of things, so ==My== kroot are able to change their adaptations fluffwise because they mentally prepare and focus before battle and can actually alter their attributes somewhat
3) Don't take any, saves points and lets you get more kroot!
If I had to pick a favorite adaptation, it would probably be Fast Reflexes. +1I across the board for low low cost keeps numbers high and allows us to go sooner in combat, which is always good. The others are good for reasons stated above, I just find FR to be the most widely used and useful.
As for Totems, ==My== Master Shaper always runs with a power weapon, meltagun, wings, veneration charm (melta), mark of the favored, blood of the stalker (in larger games when I can field the Council, otherwise I take kroothawk totem instead), and frag grenades. ~140 points of nicety, with assault killiness and tank busting capabilities. ==My== Shaper Council is typically 3 of them with hyperactive nymune organ, 6 hounds, and 3 eviscerators. In here goes a surefoot charm, blood of the stalker, and the kroothawk totem. They make an absolutle mess of tanks or monsters, but cost a bit. 3 wingers with meltas is also an option, but I love chopping things
Tanks are always a problem, but a generous smattering of eviscerators or melta bombs will keep us safe. Get into assault ASAP and they cannot shoot you, and blow them away when you get a chance. Don't underestimate massed kroot rifle fire into the rear armor either (works wonders against skimmers).
Headhunters are handy, at least moreso than Stalkers :x . They are essentially Carnivores with HNO that can charge turn 1 as well, the poison is a bonus if you run into anything nasty like a MC or C'tan. I take about 14-16, deck them out with HNO and give the Shaper a power weapon, surefoot charm, and BotS. They can either attack infantry with umpteen attacks or go for bigger prey by spitting on them. Fairly inexpensive and useful.
Trackers have their uses as well. Infiltrate them and use the Scout move to get into a good position and either start picking baddies off, or give the Shaper melta bombs or an eviscerator and pop a tank turn 1 before sniping some more.
Viva la Space Chickens!
w00t for kr00t!
but what about hte 'no more then extra 40pts' worth of wargear on ur shapers rule? does that JUST apply to the extra wargear and NOT the weapons? or does it apply to both. when i first read it, i thought it applied to both, which made me a tad sad.
oh, when u goto tourneys how many other kroot players do u normally see? i would expect none. lol but hey i might be wrong....
and last thing, can you elaborate a bit more on the kroot shamans? and why they are dangerous to use? as i cant find these 'minor' psychic powers they talk about, i am widely confused on this rule.
i noticed that everytime a new thread is made here, it gets deleted a few weeks later.... (or moved?!)... well hopefully that doesnt happen with this topic. as there is already TONS of useful info for kroot players and kroot enemies alike!
EDIT: oh yah i forgot to add this, since the codex (if u call it that) is free online, then what do u do when u go to gamesworkshop or a tourny? do u just print it off from ur computer? or is it safe to assume that you can make a write up of what you use in your army and the rules for them? just wondering.... or would u actually have to find the related white dwarf to use this army!?
Last edited by Goblin; December 15th, 2006 at 17:36.
The limit applies to wargear and totems only, not weapons.
I use a Master Shaman whenever I can for fluff reasons, but the psychic powers can be found in the Chapter Approved 2004 book. They really aren't all that deadly, just a few little tricks you can cast for minor benefit.
Kroot in tourneys? Never see them, but they did a wonderful showcase of a Kroot army for a GT a year or so ago, might still be up if you want to look.
In a tourney or friendly setting, it's best to have the rules in print, so print them out beforehand because I doubt they'll bring their PC with them
As for the deleting stuff, I dunno what's the dealy, we should probably bring it up with the mods or admin, especially if this thread goes away.
LOL!!! figures, the one time i deside i dont want a chapter approved cause i didnt like 2003.... and the rules im looking for are in the book i dont have! LOL
ok so rules in print is a good idea. but i would also like the white dwarf the kroot came from.... anyone know which issue it was? or was it chapter approved 2004 as well? lol... (i got rid of my 2003... but i dont think they were in there)
hmm i have been looking at the many different wings...
the harpie wings bits are only half a wing? do u just glue it on like that or what do u do? (2.50 per pair)
fellbat wings look terrible... (16.00 per pair, since they dont come seperate, u gotta just buy blisters of two fellbats and cut and whatnot)
gargoyles (3.75 per pair, these look really cool imo)
stingwings: these come in blisters of 2 for 16.00 and the wings look terrible, but still an option...
so far i can only see the gargoyles option being the best... at like 14 sets of wings it'll run u 52.50... whereas harpies run you 35.00 ... i guess it all depends on what you like really i guess. i personally would go with gargoyle wings... heavily modified of course....
ways to convert stalker kindred... or chameleon force? from what i can tell, this is as easy as spending 45bucks on some WE dryads and cutting and glueing and some greenstuff work to make them look like they are slowly evolving into trees or something... (giong along with fluff, you could say that they have been feeding on stick and leaf bugs due to overpopulation of those bugs, or like due to shortage of other edible life on their planet... or they they are just vegetarians lol.... or maybe on their planet, there is a rare species of animal that looks like a tree, and that is their main source of food... because from what i understand kroot slowly evolve based on what they eat.... which is why they have the adaptations.... so yah)
ways to convert FR??? I also hate the idea of using orc parts to make the orc hybrid ones.... just buy greenstuff and mold it onto them methinks.... sure if u suck at doing this, go with some orc arms... but i like the challenge of having to do this to like 50+ models. lol (now u know why it takes me FOREVER and a day to finish one army LOL)
practicality and whatnot, in the 1000pt list i've been remodeling and stuff, i have 75 models exactly.... so i would have to buy 5 boxes and i have 14 vultures (including master shaper) so that would run me (provided i do gargoyle wings) about $277.50CAN... sooo, all in all, no matter what you try, it is really hard in general to cheap out with these guys. this is also provided that i'm raiding my bitbox, and converting all of my shapers instead of buying metal ones... if i buy even one metal one, your looking at about 290+ depending on how many and any other bits u order to make the army....
hmm.... ok well gg all, nice talking... i think i have said enough this time!!!
The Harpy Wings are just folded, so a pair is able to fully wing up a Vulture. I haven't looked into it that much, but I might end up trimming down sprues and using GS to make "wings" for them.
Converting Chameleons/Stalkers can be as easy as a mottled skin tone (camo-ish) or as ambitious as tree kroot (now that is an interesting idea, using Ork Hybrid to represent their barkiness or Chameleonic so that the opponent will mistake them for trees).
To make Orky Kroot, you can use orky weapons or just paint them green, it doesn't have to be a massive project.
$277 isn't so bad, that's what most other armies end up costing, it's worse for horde armies. If you want to do kroot cheap, you'll have to look on ebay or find some Tau players who don't want theirs and convert everything from your bitz box or from scratch. I don't use metal shapers, converting a plastic one is much easier and cheaper, plus it makes the metal one stick out more. Kroot are a converter's wet dream because of the limitless possibilities offered, which is why I relish all the time I have and will spend making ==My== kroot krootastic.