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  1. #1
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    1000pts Pirate List (Friendly)

    Ok well since I've been steadily losing I've decided I need a solid 1k points list to take on the damn guard, SMurfs and khorne. 1500-2000 point games i'm confident I have down pat.

    HQ
    Farseer /w mind war-75

    Elites
    6 fire dragons-96

    Troops
    9 dire avengers-157
    exarch /w bladestorm, diresword, pistol

    Wave Serpent /w twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones-145

    5 rangers-95

    Fast Attack
    Vyper /w pair of shuriken cannons-60

    Heavy Support
    Falcon /w starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones-185

    Falcon /w starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones-185

    Extending this list would include upgrading the farseer to Eldrad OR putting him on a jetibike. Adding a full squad of infiltrating scorpions and adding warp spiders or reapers. The rangers are in there because I like them and because they are the only other troops choice I own for the moment.

    998 points



    HQ
    Farseer /w jetbike, mind war-105

    Elites
    6 fire dragons-96

    Troops
    9 dire avengers-157
    exarch /w bladestorm, diresword, pistol

    Wave Serpent /w twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones-145

    5 rangers-95

    Fast Attack
    Vyper /w pair of shuriken cannons-60

    4 warp spiders
    exarch /w 2 death spinners, powerblades-137

    Heavy Support
    Falcon /w starcannon, holo-field, vectored engines, spirit stones-205

    1000 points

    Ok now in both lists I'm having a hard time deciding on whether it should be banshees or fire dragons in the list. The dire avengers really will need someone to bail them out of cc as I'm not confident they can avoid the khorne prince and berserkers. However dragons can do some nice damage to an enemy whereas a smaller banshee squad can get swarmed under.

    Mind War is on the farseer because I plan to use him as an assassin that can hunt anything (including tanks) and tie up enemy dev/heavy squads to remove threats to my tanks. In the 1st list he will be riding with the avengers and I'm not sure if he should have eldritch storm instead.

    In the 2nd list I'm kind of torn between reapers and spiders at the moment.

    I'm currently leaning towards the 1st list because it has the extra notorious falcon. However dropping 1 of them allows me to take so many more goodies on everything else (like pathfinders, vectored engines, doom etc.) and not just warp spiders.

    Last edited by LordLink; December 29th, 2006 at 07:33.
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  3. #2
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    Personally I find in 1000pt list you do well being really miserly with points. At 2000pts you start filling up force organization slots and special forces type squads can earn their keep against similar squads. At 1000pts everything needs to be a workhorse.

    Personally I feel that the kitted out dire avengers in the wave serpent is bloated. It makes up a third of your army and it just isn't going to be able to deliver on that.

    Also at 1000pt lists I kind of like overloading things that an opponent may have trouble dealing with.

    Therefore, using the models you have. I would advise something like.

    -convert wave serpent back into a falcon to have a total of three of them.

    -drop starcannons on falcons for shurican cannons (maybe two). It saves points, you'll usually be close enough, and will often be shaken. Also note that against 3+ save meqs a pair of dual shuri cannon's 6 shots perform as well as the starcannons 2, and do better when the enemy is in cover obviously. The downside being that you'll have a harder time sniping around forests and such.

    -remove exarc and have two squads of 5 cheap dire avengers

    -put vyper shuri cannons on falcons. Put farseer on vyper as jetbike conversion (looks a lot better in my opinion. Farseers just look silly on regular jetbikes.)


    This would give a force like

    Farseer on jetbike with spear (just in case you have vehicle trouble), mind war (for plucking out threatening heavy weapons). (hides behind falcons so he cannot be targeted)

    Fire dragons (in falcon)

    DA squad 1 (in falcon)

    DA squad 2 (in falcon)

    Rangers

    3x falcons with holo and stones and dual shuri cannons.


    This list should be tough and has only used up ~950 points depending on what upgrades you've taken. Maybe fill the DA squads out to 6 if you can, maybe upgrade a dragon to exarc, make the rangers into pathfinders, or try replacing one of the DA units with more dragons.

    I'd first focus on the units that can threaten the falcons. Once "air superiority" has been acheived you just kind of stomp on the enemy with the falcons.

    Remeber by using the falcons as sheilds you shouldn't get your units charged and with your mobility you should often be able to only fight part of your oppenents army with all of yours. On that note don't forget to roll for missions! Without a mission an oppenet can cluster together and not move or whatever. But consider the advantages you have in secure and control, recon, and cleanse when you have an army where every unit can either infiltrate or move 24+ inches and everything but the farseer is a scoring unit.
    Last edited by sunnyside; December 29th, 2006 at 21:55.

  4. #3
    Senior Member $ick's Avatar
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    I think I get what sunnyside is on about.

    He seems to have guard covered, but if it were marines it would be sumin like,

    2 squads of reapers

    Farseer

    guardians

    wraithlord

  5. #4
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    186 (x8)

    But then both of you are absolutely killing LL's army, especially with your theme killer $ick.

    Between the two LL I'd say go with the first list; two falcons and a near-full squad of avengers led by a farseer. (Unless thats nine avengers plus an exarch, then forget everything I'm saying and go with the second list where everything is mobile and fast.)

    [This is supposed to be a friendly list, as indicated in the thread title. There is no need or reason to turn it into a competative one...]

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  6. #5
    LO Zealot Heiromyo's Avatar
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    124 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordLink View Post

    HQ
    Farseer /w mind war-75

    Elites
    6 fire dragons-96

    Troops
    9 dire avengers-157
    exarch /w bladestorm, diresword, pistol

    Wave Serpent /w twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones-145

    5 rangers-95

    Fast Attack
    Vyper /w pair of shuriken cannons-60

    Heavy Support
    Falcon /w starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones-185

    Falcon /w starcannon, holo-field, spirit stones-185
    HQ:
    Your Farseer isn't doing much, it seems he's there because you needed to fill a HQ slot. I recommend you have him something more useful and have him mounted with the Dire Avengers. Guide, Doom, Fortune etc...something to help the Dire Avengers out.

    If you're tht scrap for points I suggest you give him Runes of Witness and Eldritch Storm. This way you can mount him in the Wave serpent with the Dire Avengers and add a serious amount of anti-infantry. If you happen to see a vehicle too you can use Eldritch Storm to flip it so that you have a chance of having it reveal its weaker armour to your brightlances (you may want to detach your Farseer before you start aiming at separate targets as you don't want your Dire Avengers shooting vehicles).

    Troops:

    Your Dire Avengers ae fine though you will probably want duel shuriken catapults for the Exarch. Since this is a Drive and Drop strategy you want to destroy what you aim at and the Dire sword does not offer much protection against close combat anyways without some of the protective Exarch powers.

    For your Wave Serpent you may want to add a Shuriken Cannon to help the squad out in their shooting in case there arn't any vehicles about.

    Your Rangers don't really fit with your army as they can't move and the rest of your army is fast. I do see why you have them there though. I suggest removing the Vyper in favour of a Gaurdian Squad as mobile support. They can fleet of foot too so they won't spend half the game catching up with your army.

    Fast:

    A single vyper like this isn't going to effect the battle too much due to its lack of fire power and frail armour. It will most likely just die. I suggest you remove it in favour of more points for Guardians as mentioned above.

    Heavy:

    These are fine, though consider a Shuriken Cannon under mount for better shooting against large infantry squads as well as against heavyily armoured infantry.

    Generally:

    Mobility your army has though I'd say it's lacking in the Anti-tank department. I suggest you remove a Falcon in favour of a Fire Prism. Not only will it be cheaper but it will offer you long range anti-tank as well as being effective against infantry. Though not deadly to space marines with such a large template you can be sure it'd cause some damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordLink
    HQ
    Farseer /w jetbike, mind war-105

    Elites
    6 fire dragons-96

    Troops
    9 dire avengers-157
    exarch /w bladestorm, diresword, pistol

    Wave Serpent /w twin-linked bright lances, spirit stones-145

    5 rangers-95

    Fast Attack
    Vyper /w pair of shuriken cannons-60

    4 warp spiders
    exarch /w 2 death spinners, powerblades-137

    Heavy Support
    Falcon /w starcannon, holo-field, vectored engines, spirit stones-205
    HQ:

    A jetbike Farseer with mind war is not the most effective offensive unit I've seen. At the moment I see it struggling to mke it's points back. With a Singing Spear it can do some tank hunting and Eldritch Storm it can be effective against infantry. This will make it a far more efficent HQ. Runes of Witness also improves psychic test success rates.

    However if you can't afford to make the changes I suggest doing as mentioned above for the previous list.

    Troops:

    For your Dire Avengers and Wave Serpent Transport, same as above.

    Again Rangers don't really fit the list but I guess you'll have to keep them unless you're willing to remove those Fire Dragons For points to turn this squad into Gaurdians.

    Fast:

    Again the Vyper isn't going to do much in terms of offense as mentioned above. I recommend you remove this in favour of more numbers for the Warp Spiders.

    Your Warp Spiders are really small, I suggest more numbers. Also the Exarch will need Withdraw to protect this squad from combat as they arn't too efficent at it even with the Exarch.

    Heavy:

    The Falcon seems fine though that vector engines upgrade seems to be soaking up unnessicary points. I would remove it.

    Generally:

    Again your army lacks a bit of long ranged anti-tank, I suggest you remove the Falcon in favour of a Fire Prism. Then use the points from the Fire Dragons to combine with the Rangers to create a Gaurdian squad, with the points left over improve the Farseer as mentioned. The vyper can be removed to increase the Warp Spider unit. I suggst this becuase you have small units here and there that arn't going to be doing much (Warp Spiders, Vyper, Farseer) and the army relies purely on the success on your two bigger units (Dire Avengers and Falcon+Fire Dragons). By doing this the list will be leveled out so each squad is just as threatening as the other, this way your opponent will have a little more to think of in terms of target prioritising.

    Personally I would avoid the use of wave serpents as mobility in 1000pts games because of their cost. You're better off purchasing jump infantry points wise and using Dire Avengers and/or Guardians on foot as your core choices. Single Vypers don't hold enough weight by themselves so they are better utilised in squadrons for resilience and sheer firepower. Something like:

    Farseer/Autarch
    Dire Avengers
    Guardians
    Warp Spiders
    Swooping Hawks
    Fire Dragons
    Falcon

    may suit your army in these size points...though its only an idea, if you have a set theme ignor it
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  7. #6
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    @darkreiver

    I don't think I'm "destroying" his list as the changes I suggested can be done without buying any extra models.

    I'll admit the list I gave isn't nessesarily the most "friendly" though. (However, especially with the extra dragons, it'd fair fine against MEQs)

    @Hieromyo

    Remember a farseer mounted in a vehicle can't use doom, guide, or fortune. Retarded, but that's the new rules.


    If you want to be friendlier have more troops as they can win but are more "fun" for your enemies. Whereas it's possible you might not lose any points fighting Korn with the all falcon list.


    If you're looking to buy at least some bits I'd say have a doomseer the one falcon with dragons. A pair of fire prisms so they're usefull against MEQ and heavy armor. Keep your rangers if you like them. Then just fill out the rest with cheap exarcless avengers.

    Note if you want to save some points you can drop the upgrades on one of the prisms and have it hide, simply providing the extra shot for the other. A little risky but it'll put a few more avengers on the table.

  8. #7
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    I quite like Sunnysides idea with 3 falcons. Although people are already complaining at me for using 2 immortal falcons. All it'd take is pulling off those things down its hull and woila.

    Like I said I tend to play 40k often so this isn't a permanent list. This is a list to try and break my losing streak using the models I already own.

    The models I own include:

    5 rangers
    15 dire avengers (/w 1 exarch)
    wave serpent

    farseer on jetbike (to late for the vyper conversion I'm afraid)
    eldrad ulthran/farseer
    Fuegan (usually used as a dragon exarch)

    5 warp spiders (/w 1 exarch)
    5 swooping hawks (I kinda broke them so they will take some work)
    1 vyper

    2 falcons
    1 old wraithlord without a head
    3 dark reapers

    6 howling banshees (/w 1 exarch)
    9 fire dragons
    9 striking scorpion and 2 striking scorpion exarchs

    So using these models I've been trying to find a list to use over the these summer holidays. I already know what I'm going to be buying and how to improve it but 40k is a slow hobby and we don't buy everything we want at once.

    2 smaller avenger squads in falcons could work quite well. You think 1 of them should get the exarch or no?

    The problem with the doom farseer is that he can't cast it as the avengers disembark. And up close to the IG a lot of avengers are going to die before the next turn and against khorne I don't trust his flying daemon prince/lucky blood frenzy. Against the necrons it could help though.

    I've been using shuriken cannon falcons for a few games and they have killed bugger all every game. I've decided to blame them a bit so this list included starcannons to see if the old falcons (albeit 1 shot less) could help me out.
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  9. #8
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    Well, at least the starcannoned falcons will give you more firepower at standoff ranges. (usefull against Khorn in particular). Maybe try a mix and see how it goes.

    It might be worth it to add the exarc to a DA unit I'm not sure.

    I'm still tempted by the idea of having two squads of fire dragons on one squad of DA. It would give you more anti vehicle and a nasty surprise for any nurgle marines. Two more fire dragons would be nice for that (if you're oponents let you prox).

    Regardless you're models shouldn't be gtting assaulted. With three falcons you should be able to drop the troops and completly block the enemies ability to charge unless they drop a falcon.

    Note that doom farseers are pedestrians pretty much. They are for helping out a good number of avengers and shouldn't be used in a mechanized list. When I refered to them it was in reference to a "friendlier" list where you use more DA's on the ground and fire prisms.

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