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  1. #1
    Senior Member StevenSane's Avatar
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    1,500 Mech -Tourney-

    I'm goin to my first tournament in Baltimore with my brother in a couple weeks, so I came up with what I think is a pretty solid list. I gotta get glueing and painting if I wanna pull this mess together!

    HQ:
    Shas'El- Fireknife (MT, TA) = 97pts

    Elite:
    3x Crisis team- Fireknife, Team Leader, 2 shield drones, bonded = 226pts

    5x stealth team, 5x Gun drones, leader+bonded = 210pts
    (I'll probably get the most criticism for this choise, but without getting into it too much I like this config.)

    Monat Deathrain (TL Missile Pods) = 43pts
    (sweet conversion WIP, I built him reverse jointed legs, and yah no TA...more or less he's expendable and great for flushing out artillary I hope.)

    Troops:
    12x Firewarriors, Shas'ui, bonded = 135pts
    Warfish (TA, MT, SMS, Decoy) = 120pts

    13x kroot + 1 hound = 111pts

    Fast Attack:
    8x Pathfinders = 96 points
    Warfish = 120pts

    Heavy Support:
    Railhead (Burst Cannons, MT, Decoy, Distupt) = 170pts
    Railhead = 170pts

    KROOT

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  3. #2
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    HQ Shas'el Fireknife: good solid choice. If you can find the points, give him Stims as well for insurance.

    Elites: 3-man teams bad idea. They force you to take T-Ldr and Bonding Knife, which is extra points that could be used elsewhere. The Stealths are going to have one huge footprint with that many models in the unit. The Monat needs a third hard point covered.

    Ok, so what are the suggestions? Well, let's look at the 3-man team with the SDs first. Why do you *need* the three suits? You automatically force yourself to spend extra points on protecting the unit as detailed in the previous paragraph. Yet you have a Monat Deathrain. So why not increase the long range fire support ability by teaming him up with one guy from the 3-man team giving you a Deathrain unit of 2 models, each with TA, and placed in high cover like a roof top or similar where their range and LOS can be put to the best advantage?

    This would then allow you to reconsider the original Fireknife unit. You have adequate long range there with the MPs, but you do not have anti-AV14 capability. The taking of SDs suggests though that you intend to get up close and personal. Fair enough, so why not take a Helios on a Team Leader with TA and hard-wire the Drone Controller and Multitracker? That way you still have the long reach from the MPs, medium reach from the PR and good Character/Vehicle Killer ability at short range, with the SDs covering your backside. This would allow this unit to advance progressively using MPs for initial turns and gradually adding the firepower of the shorter ranged weapons as they approach the enemy target.

    If you are so fond of the Stealths, then keep them as they are. With that firepower they will do serious damage. Personally, for a Tournament army list I would use them as a Stealth Marker Team, but that is because the SMT is my favourite unit. If you have never tried one out, it is surprising just how effective and indestructible they are.

    Troops: Fire Warriors + Devilfish: Much as I love using the FoF tactic, using 120pts of transport vehicle is causing two things to happen to you. First, the Devilfish is non-scoring for you, but will award your opponent VPs if he immobilises or destroys it. Either way you lose. I would be very tempted to exchange the DF points for another unit of Fire Warriors or Kroot. Here's why:

    Fire Warriors have long range pulse rifles. Minimum units of these guys can be placed far back in your deployment zones, thus holding that table quarter probably for ever. Giving them a Shas'ui with ML gains you the advantage of a well dug in ML unit which will be hard to remove, and the rest of the army will benefit from that ML.

    Kroot can infiltrate. Simple as that. They deploy after everything else on the board (unless your opponent has Infiltrators, in which case you dice off), so you will be able to contest or control table quarters instantly. Placing Kroot into woods more than 6" in will mean that they will be very hard to shift and will also give your opponent choices to make: leave the main army units alone and deal with the Kroot, or forget the Kroot to hit the army and still have to deal with them later. Either way you win.

    Fast Attack: Pathfinders for me are a unit which has a massive placard waving above them saying "Shoot us, we're here!" This is the unit any opponent is going to kill/try to kill immediately. Why? Because everyone is scared stiff of those Markerlights. Yes, by all means place the unit in cover, but it will still attract so much firepower it's not real. Again, this unit forces you to spend points since it MUST take a DF. And again, you have the problem of a non-scoring unit for you just waiting to give VPs to your opponent. Not a good plan for Tournament armies to have too many non-scoring units in the list.

    Heavy Support: Hammerhead gunships without Target Locks basically removes the effectiveness of the vehicle's weapon systems. Either you fire the RG at a distant target which is beyond the range of the BCs/SMS, or you waste the huge range of the RG by targetting the closer enemy unit which the BCs/SMS *can* reach. Either way you lose out. Taking a Target Lock with RG and BCs allows you to target three separate units at once with your single Hammerhead. SMS are slightly better than the BCs IMHO because of that extra range, but whatever floats your boat for you, as the saying goes!

    A list you might like to consider could look like this:

    HQ: Shas'el Fireknife+ with Stims 107pts

    Troops: 7 man FW team, 'Ui with ML and HWTL, BK 100pts
    Troops: 7 man FW team, 'Ui with ML and HWTL 95pts
    Troops: 2 units of 10 Kroot, one with single Kroot Hound 146pts total

    Elites: 4-man Stealth Marker Team: T-Ldr with TA, ML, HWTL, HWDC+2MDs. Unit has TA 240pts

    Elites: 2-man Deathrain+ unit: 106pts
    Elites: 2-man XV8 team: team member is Fireknife, T-Ldr is Helios+ 139pts

    Heavy Support: Railhead: MT/SMS/DL/TL/DP 185pts
    Heavy Support: Railhead: MT/SMS/DL/TL/DP 185pts
    Heavy Support: 2-BASS team: T-Ldr with HWDC+2SDs 195pts

    Total points: 1498.
    Scoring Units: 10
    Non-Scoring Units: 1

    E.

  4. #3
    Senior Member StevenSane's Avatar
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    You DO make some convincing arguments.

    It seems like you have the biggest objection to my fireknife squad. At this points level I really love taking some heavily armed crisis simply because they can be so devistating when you hook them up with some markerlight hits. Obviously those pathfinders are enormous targets to almost everyone, -_- but of course this is because they are so bad ass. The drones arent so much a lisence for agression but an insurance policy and cheap extra wounds. Chrisis suits of any config are easily the biggest bag of points per wound so I dont see shield drones as a waste. As for the monat, designed him to be expendable. Two shots in some rear armor (rerolling deep strikes is amazing) is all I expect him to pull off before he bites it but its nice than he can switch roles and play in the backfield too.

    Discaring the warfish I never considered. Your right about having more scoring units but I feel not taking one puts my infantry in serious jepardy so why not throw more armor on the board? Four tanks is always better than just two in my opinion.

    I might try changing up my elite slots, but I'm a real fan of mobility over stopping power so I dont expect I'll be replacing transports with Broadsides.
    KROOT

  5. #4
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    HQ:
    Shas'El- Fireknife (MT, TA) = 97pts
    Can't go wrong with this guy!
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    Elite:
    3x Crisis team- Fireknife, Team Leader, 2 shield drones, bonded = 226pts
    I strongly dislike odd numbers, especially in small squads like Crisis. Honestly, I'd prefer to drop one of the XV8s and the bonding. Replace the bonding with a HW Target Lock, too. Two suits, attacking two targets, and two shield drones. That guarantees that your drones can protect your suits and best preserves your VPs, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    5x stealth team, 5x Gun drones, leader+bonded = 210pts
    Hm. Very interesting. My only beef with it is how difficult it might be to hide such a large squad behind terrain. But it is definitely a nasty infantry-slaughtering unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    Monat Deathrain (TL Missile Pods) = 43pts
    You must select either another weapon or a support system. All three hardpoints on battlesuits must be filled. I'd select a targeting array, personally. :yes:
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    Troops:
    12x Firewarriors, Shas'ui, bonded = 135pts
    Warfish (TA, MT, SMS, Decoy) = 120pts
    For fish-of-fury warriors, a shas'ui isn't strictly necessary. But there's nothing wrong with the squad, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    13x kroot + 1 hound = 111pts
    Why only one hound? I'd replace three of your kroot with hounds, or take no hounds at all, were it me. Either take 'em and use 'em, or don't. Either would be fine, but a so-so investment just makes using the squad awkward.
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    Fast Attack:
    8x Pathfinders = 96 points
    Warfish = 120pts
    A shas'ui is more important for pathfinders than for mounted fire warriors, if only for target priority checks, though also supplying a bonding knife and HW target lock doesn't hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane
    Heavy Support:
    Railhead (Burst Cannons, MT, Decoy, Distupt) = 170pts
    Railhead = 170pts
    [/QUOTE]
    Solid.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  6. #5
    Senior Member StevenSane's Avatar
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    Whats wrong with an odd number of crisis suits? In a mixed unit you count the number of wounds (8 here) not models. As I already said I really like giving this unit a few markerlights to really juice em up. Its like having 3 extra HQ's shooting.

    For the monat I'll just stick a drone controller on there. I dont really wanna spend the xtra 10 points on something I might sacrifice to take out hidden armor. Its really only the difference between 75% accuracy and 88%.

    For the stealths I dunno, it really depends on how much terrian Im likely to see at this tourney. When me and my brother play we usually use d3 + 3 pieces of medium sized terrain on a 6'x4' table, so theres usually not much to hide behind.
    KROOT

  7. #6
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    I think you guys aren't allowed to post individual points costs for units, just the whole section. Maybe wanna change that before the mod's strike.
    Turtles For the Turtle God!
    Shells For the Shell Throne!

  8. #7
    Senior Member ZenGamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    For the monat I'll just stick a drone controller on there. I dont really wanna spend the xtra 10 points on something I might sacrifice to take out hidden armor. Its really only the difference between 75% accuracy and 88%.
    If you take a drone controller you have to take at least one drone which is __ pts. at the cheapest for a gun drone anyway. The cheapest way out is the Blacksun filter. It really is better to bite the bullet and get something useful, either a TA or a second weapon and MT.

    And the reason for teams of 2 Crisis suits without drones is to prevent the squad from ever not being able to regroup without a bonding knife - it will never be below 50% as then it would be dead. For purposes of morale checks, it is 25% and 50% of squad size, not wounds.
    -Thread Killer Bryan
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  9. #8
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenGamer View Post
    And the reason for teams of 2 Crisis suits without drones is to prevent the squad from ever not being able to regroup without a bonding knife - it will never be below 50% as then it would be dead. For purposes of morale checks, it is 25% and 50% of squad size, not wounds.
    Absolutely correct. Many people get this situation mixed up: the only times *wounds* are counted in a unit is a) to determine the outnumbering or not between the two sides in a combat where multi-wound models are involved, and b) to determine whether a unit containing or consisting entirely of multi-wound models is at, above or below half strength for the allocating of Victory Points at the end of the game.

    Morale Checks are always done using the number of physical models in the unit, never the number of wounds. This is why odd numbers of Crisis suits, whether with or without Drones, is not a good idea and necessitates the purchase of T-Ldr upgrade plus Bonding Knife, as Zengamer said.

    In a two-man squad, you would never therefore be below half strength for taking Morale Checks as has already been said. Also, the unit would have to suffer 3 unsaved wounds for it to be worth 1/2 its value in VP at the end of the game (ie one model removed and the other with one wound remaining).

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

  10. #9
    Senior Member StevenSane's Avatar
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    Hmmm, all this stuff is really good to know. Model # vs wounds, and the drone controller requiring a min. 1 drone.

    Im really curious about the terrain I'm likely to see there tho. If theres likely to be plenty to hide behind I might as well buy a 6th stealth and drop the drones.
    KROOT

  11. #10
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post

    HQ:
    Shas'El- Fireknife (MT, TA) = 97pts
    Fine I actually think in tournie conditions the fireknife is a bit safer with the added range from the MP, nice choice

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    Elite:
    3x Crisis team- Fireknife, Team Leader, 2 shield drones, bonded = 226pts
    3 man teams are bad news, bonded does nothing really trust me on this, your XV8's should ideally never be in a position to use it and its only a re-roll anyway. The unit size makes them easier to target.
    This is what you should do, take another Shas'El, why oh why do players not see the advantage in taking two commanders, they have superior stats, much better survivability and are much harder hitting.
    Either take another FK or (and this is my preference) take a Helios multi with TA (97pts), then take a single Deathrain with TA in the elites slot, believe me this configuration is:
    (a) cheaper allowing other improvements throughout the list (I will detail)
    (b) Much more effective, superior hit rates from both suits and much better survivability for both suits
    Together they will cost 150pts a friggin bargain and you do not need shield drones and you save a whopping 76pts

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    5x stealth team, 5x Gun drones, leader+bonded = 210pts

    (I'll probably get the most criticism for this choise, but without getting into it too much I like this config.)
    Gun drones=bad idea, lose the drones and just take 6 bog standard stealths and save 30pts. The size of this unit will make them a prime target and this is bad news because ideally the stealths should be used as a skirmish, flanking unit and you should be aiming to use cover as much as possible (pretty hard with a unit that big), you will get more use out of the unit if its not drawing shed loads of fire and its a lot of points to lose

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    Monat Deathrain (TL Missile Pods) = 43pts
    (sweet conversion WIP, I built him reverse jointed legs, and yah no TA...more or less he's expendable and great for flushing out artillary I hope.)
    Give it a TA, for 10pts the hit rate improvement is worth it, just one hit can turn a game so maximise its potential

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    Troops:
    12x Firewarriors, Shas'ui, bonded = 135pts
    Warfish (TA, MT, SMS, Decoy) = 120pts
    Again lose the bonding, warfish is ok, though I find they are not as useful on FW teams due to the fact they need to stay close to the FW team.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    13x kroot + 1 hound = 111pts
    This is a mess, you need to take more hounds, reduce the Kroot count to 10 and take 8 hounds, the hounds are worth their weight in gold (check my tactica in the stickied section of the forum) and it will only cost you 7 points more to take the hounds so do it fella.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    Fast Attack:
    8x Pathfinders = 96 points
    Warfish = 120pts
    Fine, no railrifles=good

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSane View Post
    Heavy Support:
    Railhead (Burst Cannons, MT, Decoy, Distupt) = 170pts
    Railhead = 170pts
    Get rid of the disruption, totally pointless upgrade, save yourself 10pts.

    If you make the changes I advise you will have:

    HQ:
    2 X Shas'El- Fireknife (MT, TA) = 194pts (or 1 FK and 1 Helios)

    Elite:
    1x Crisis team- Deathrain, TL MP, TA = 53pts

    1x Crisis team- Deathrain, TL MP, TA = 53pts

    6x stealth team, 180pts

    Troops:
    12x Firewarriors, Shas'ui= 130pts
    Warfish (TA, MT, SMS, Decoy) = 120pts

    10x kroot + 8 hounds = 118pts

    Fast Attack:
    8x Pathfinders = 96 points
    Warfish = 120pts

    Heavy Support:
    Railhead (Burst Cannons, MT, Decoy,) = 165pts
    Railhead = 165pts

    That totals 1394 pts which leaves you with a massive 106pts to play with, I would advise another Deathrain to make a two man team, make it a team leader and give it TL MP, TA and HW Target lock for 63pts,this will leave you with 43 pts, so I would advise 4 seekers 2 on each of the warfish, this will add some nice non LOS reliant punch to the vehicles and some nice first turn firepower and you could even give one of the Shas'Els a blacksun filter to take it to 1500 pts dead.

    If you follow my advise you will have 5 XV8 suits with better hit rates and much improved survivability, a better stealth team and a vastly superior Kroot force, hope this helps.

    Finished list:

    HQ:
    1 X Shas'El- Fireknife (MT, TA, BS filter) = 100pts
    1 X Shas'El Helios multi (PL, FU, TA, HW multi) 97pts

    Elite:
    1x Crisis team- Deathrain (teamleader), TL MP, TA, HW TL= 63pts
    1x Crisis team- Deathrain, TL MP, TA = 53pts (team total 116pts)

    1x Crisis team- Deathrain, TL MP, TA = 53pts

    6x stealth team, 180pts

    Troops:
    12x Firewarriors, Shas'ui= 130pts
    Warfish (TA, MT, SMS, Decoy, two seekers) = 140pts

    10x kroot + 8 hounds = 118pts

    Fast Attack:
    8x Pathfinders = 96 points
    Warfish (as FW DF) = 140pts

    Heavy Support:
    Railhead (Burst Cannons, MT, Decoy,) = 165pts
    Railhead = 165pts

    1500pts exactly
    1984

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