Kabal of The Desecrated Deity [2000] Tourney - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member Lewey's Avatar
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    Kabal of The Desecrated Deity [2000] Tourney

    HQ

    Dracon
    Poisoned blades, plasma grenades, splinter pistol

    Haemonculus
    Reaver jetbike, destructor, scissorhands

    Haemonculus
    Reaver jetbike, destructor, scissorhands

    ELITES

    10 Mandrakes

    10 Mandrakes

    10 Mandrakes

    TROOPS

    10 Warriors incl Sybarite
    2 splinter cannons, agoniser

    10 Warriors incl Sybarite
    2 splinter cannons, agoniser

    10 Warriors incl Sybarite
    2 splinter cannons, agoniser

    10 Warrior
    2 dark lances

    10 Warrior
    2 dark lances


    10 Warrior
    2 dark lances


    FAST ATTACK

    5 Reaver Jetbikes incl Succubus
    Tormentor helm, punisher

    5 Reaver Jetbikes incl Succubus
    Tormentor helm, punisher

    HEAVY SUPPORT

    Ravager
    3 disintegrators

    Ravager
    3 disintegrators

    Ravager
    3 disintegrators

    Soz bout the untidy format =D

    Comments plz!!!


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  3. #2
    Member Redtwin's Avatar
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    It seems like a good warrior-heavy list. Given how underrated our warriors usually are, I like it. That said, there are a lot of little things I would do differently.

    First, unless Army Builder is out to lunch (which is possible), your army is over 2000 points as listed. Some tweaking is probably needed to bring that down.

    Why put poisoned blades on the Dracon instead of an agonizer, and why have you passed on combat drugs and shadow field? This is a fairly atypical HQ unless you're really stripped for points, and if that's the case you're probably better off dropping him entirely for more warriors anyway. About the only use I can see for an HQ this cheap is a fire magnet, in which case he needs to stay 6" away from all other units during play to be a valid target, and should have shadow field to be able to soak up more fire.

    I'd put the Haemonculi on skyboards instead of reavers. The point difference is significant, particularly on relatively inexpensive units to begin with. About the only time I'd leave them on a jetbike is if you're pairing them up with your reaver squads and really want to keep the ability to turbo-boost. The strength bonus from the reaver is completely wasted, and that's usually the biggest advantage of the reaver over the skyboard. I'd also toss on a Hellmask with the freed up points to add a little cheap survivability.

    The point to Mandrakes as I see it is psychological. The enemy having no idea where they'll pop up allows you to really play mind games with your opponent, and that isn't effected by their unit size. I'd bring the squad size down for all three because you really do need the points elsewhere.

    Your splinter cannon warrior squads look a little thin to me. I'd pad them with a few more warriors as they're going to be fairly sizeable fire magnets. 15-17 warriors is probably ideal.

    The codex specifically prohibits two handed weapons on Reavers, so barring some very easygoing tourney rulemongers they won't let your punisher toting succubi through. You can still give them power weapons, but you'll take a strength hit. Unfortunately there's no point-effective way around that. I'd also toss blasters on the reavers to give them the ability to tank hunt and do a little more damage prior to charging.

    I like the Ravagers, though I'd add Horrorfexes to them. Not only does it give you the chance to pin horde armies for another turn of shooty goodness, but it gives you another weapon to part with if you get a "weapon destroyed" result. Pretty good for the point cost.

    So, after fiddling with it a bit, I would play it as follows:

    2x Haemonculi w. Hellion Skyboard, destructor, scissorhands, hell mask - 130 points

    2x 7 Mandrakes - 210 points

    1x 6 Mandrakes - 90 points (Just couldn't find the points for that one last Mandrake)

    3x 16 Warriors w. 2 splinter cannons + syrabite with agonizer, splinter pistol - 546 points

    3x 10 Warriors w. 2 dark lance - 300 points

    2x 4 Reaver jetbikes w. 2 blasters + succubi with power weapon, tormentor helm, plasma grenades - 364 points

    3x Ravagers w. 2 disintegrators, 1 dark lance, 1 horrorfex - 360 points


    There's a fair bit different there, so let me know what you think!
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  4. #3
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post
    HQ

    Dracon
    Poisoned blades, plasma grenades, splinter pistol
    The splinter pistol can't be used to give an extra attack with poison blades. This is not a useful unit, either you need to amek ti one Drugs, S.F., Ago or you need to drop it.

    What do you want to use it for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post
    Haemonculus
    Reaver jetbike, destructor, scissorhands

    Haemonculus
    Reaver jetbike, destructor, scissorhands
    These can work quite well, as they are T5 multiwound models, however they are still relatively fragile as they only have a 5+ save, 5++ if they boost, this means you will need to babysit them. I don't think they are worthy of an inclusion in a tourney list. I'd drop at least one and use the points to fix your dracon.

    Again, whats the plan with these, I might be missing what your aiming at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post
    10 Mandrakes

    10 Mandrakes

    10 Mandrakes
    Not worht the points. 1 unit of mandrakes, maybe, 2 tiny units, possibly, 3 no way. Drop at least one of these units, probably two. If you are keeping two units make them smaller (6 men each max) use the points to buy some wyches and/or fix your HQ or warrior squads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post
    TROOPS

    10 Warriors incl Sybarite
    2 splinter cannons, agoniser

    10 Warriors incl Sybarite
    2 splinter cannons, agoniser

    10 Warriors incl Sybarite
    2 splinter cannons, agoniser
    What are these for? These are rather too small to be effective, you could do with bulking them up to 15+ each and adding some balsters, tahts a hefty points investment though (maybe less mandrakes and Hemonculi?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post
    10 Warrior
    2 dark lances

    10 Warrior
    2 dark lances

    10 Warrior
    2 dark lances
    Why 3 sniper squads? 2 Is usually sufficient although theres nothing worn gwith 3 are you expecting alot of armour?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post

    FAST ATTACK

    5 Reaver Jetbikes incl Succubus
    Tormentor helm, punisher

    5 Reaver Jetbikes incl Succubus
    Tormentor helm, punisher
    Punishers are illegal here, power weapons are better, blasters would help, why 2 squds of reavers, they are too fragile for tournie play especially as CC units, though they make good tank hunters in 3 man temas with balsters. I'd strongly suggest chucking these or, if they are a main pint of your army, improving them. If you want to imprvoe them drop a lance squad, give them blasters, I assume the Haemies will be with them whcih makes them tempting targets, you need other tempting targets, these are fast, your troops are slow which does not mesh well, perhaps dorp a warrior squad to hop the others up on raiders. As I say though these are not he most tournie robust units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post
    HEAVY SUPPORT

    Ravager
    3 disintegrators

    Ravager
    3 disintegrators

    Ravager
    3 disintegrators
    Theres nothing worng with this in a shooty DE army, but in an assaulty one I'd take only 2 I can't really tell what your army is, it doesn't seem to know.

    What is your plan, the idea behind the list that will help us give more meaningful feedback if you explain your choices a little.

    Hope tha thelps a bit.

  5. #4
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karantalsis View Post
    The splinter pistol can't be used to give an extra attack with poison blades. This is not a useful unit, either you need to amek ti one Drugs, S.F., Ago or you need to drop it.

    Agreed, however this is exactly the sort of dracon that would be perfect for taking with an incubi retinue (minus the pistol), either that or the 60 point punisher one...

    What do you want to use it for?

    These can work quite well, as they are T5 multiwound models, however they are still relatively fragile as they only have a 5+ save, 5++ if they boost, this means you will need to babysit them. I don't think they are worthy of an inclusion in a tourney list. I'd drop at least one and use the points to fix your dracon.

    Indeed. But one of those haemies would actually work really well with a shadowfield, he could have him as the solitary HQ and save lots of points. Either that or take a dracite as well (I know... open to debate as per usual) which has wych weapons and a dodge save to keep her alive without a shadowfield, that'd be great.

    Without shadowfielding one, the only way these are staying alive is by tagging along with the bikes (not joining) and milking that IC status for all it's worth.

    Again, whats the plan with these, I might be missing what your aiming at.



    Not worht the points. 1 unit of mandrakes, maybe, 2 tiny units, possibly, 3 no way. Drop at least one of these units, probably two. If you are keeping two units make them smaller (6 men each max) use the points to buy some wyches and/or fix your HQ or warrior squads.

    I take it you've never tried the army of shadows before. ^_^
    I actually think mandrakes can work better en masse sometimes than when you only have 1 unit. Usually 30 mandrakes is really only for a theme or a really good veteran player out for some fun but I'm not sure they'd be the best option here. Perhaps some grotesques? Get a few haemies with them instead of that useless dracon? Maybe pop them in a raider...


    What are these for? These are rather too small to be effective, you could do with bulking them up to 15+ each and adding some balsters, tahts a hefty points investment though (maybe less mandrakes and Hemonculi?)
    Agreed. Bump them up if possible or combine them into 2 squads. Space marines can take being in small squads, dark eldar can't.


    Why 3 sniper squads? 2 Is usually sufficient although theres nothing worn gwith 3 are you expecting alot of armour?

    Agreed except apart from this he really doesn't have much anti tank at all... 6 lances isn't all that much.


    Punishers are illegal here, power weapons are better, blasters would help, why 2 squds of reavers, they are too fragile for tournie play especially as CC units, though they make good tank hunters in 3 man temas with balsters. I'd strongly suggest chucking these or, if they are a main pint of your army, improving them. If you want to imprvoe them drop a lance squad, give them blasters, I assume the Haemies will be with them whcih makes them tempting targets, you need other tempting targets, these are fast, your troops are slow which does not mesh well, perhaps dorp a warrior squad to hop the others up on raiders. As I say though these are not he most tournie robust units.

    Definately give them blasters but too weak for a tournie setting? These are reaver jetbikes! One of our best units!

    Theres nothing worng with this in a shooty DE army, but in an assaulty one I'd take only 2 I can't really tell what your army is, it doesn't seem to know.

    I usually opt for 2 but where else is his killing stuff coming from? He's uses so many points on mandrakes and such that he's gonna have issues killing marines. I agree that this army seems indecisive. It's not shooty, assault, it doesn't excel at either and it isn't really a balance. It needs direction.

    What is your plan, the idea behind the list that will help us give more meaningful feedback if you explain your choices a little.
    Indeed.

    Hope tha thelps a bit.
    And that's what I have to say for the moment.

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  6. #5
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redtwin View Post
    First, unless Army Builder is out to lunch (which is possible)...
    Hey, I brought Army Builder out of the "Dark Ages" about a year or 2 ago - if you can find something wrong with it let me know and I will get it fixed. I was the maintainer for Dark Eldar data file and I pretty much fixed it. Some of my coding still exists in it today but there really isnt any real need anymore for more coding so I left the group.

    As for the list... I like the advice the others have provided. Here is an addition thought:

    3 squads of Mandrakes is a bit much - I have played with 2 full squads and found that just 1 squad was more productive as the Mandrakes usually only had one worthy target that they can handle in any normal game. Imagine 3 squads all looking for a good target - you will find one realistically maybe two but try moving 30 models into base contact, hiding in cover or just keeping them alive. If you are trying to use a theme then go ahead and keep them but usually 3 squads is too much, 2 is considered alot too but do-able and 1 is perfect (its just there is other things you can spend points on rather than more mandrakes).

    I would easily trade one squad of mandrakes for a nice 148 point Kroot carnivore squad. Same number of models, nice infiltration if mission allows, same number of attacks on the charge but better strength, better shooting weapon, decent save in forests but are not slowed down by it and they can see 12" through it if they dont shoot. The best thing of course about the kroot is the master crafted chainfist the 3 wound shaper gets to carry - he isnt an independant character so he may strike last but he cant be "picked out".

  7. #6
    Member Lewey's Avatar
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    Thanks GUys for opinion, I have realised what you said and decided I will completely redo the army... Can anyone give me a link to some generic tournament list armies?

  8. #7
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    [/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewey View Post

    Dracon
    Poisoned blades, plasma grenades, splinter pistol

    What I think you're looking for is something like this:


    Dracon w/Agoniser, P Blades, Plasmas, T Helm, Shadowfield and Drugs.


    This way you can choose to wound on 2+ or 4+ and ignore saves. Splinter Pistol gives no additional attack with Poisoned Blades, and Plasmas can't be used with Poisoned Blades to negate cover.

    I'd happily give the Haemonculi Boards instead of Bikes to buy the Field, T Helm and Agoniser. This way you still get your 2 Destructor shots nearly wherever you want and a Dracon who can go toe to toe with nearly anything and kick its head in.
    Last edited by Niffenator; July 10th, 2007 at 20:43.

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