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I am planning on a game against Tau, and I was wondering if the following list is a good one to take on all sorts of Tau or even IG shooty.
Farseer with Spirit Stone, Doom, Guide, witchblade - 120
7 Harlies + Shadowseer, with 7 kisses (one non kiss) - 202
9 Dire Avengers + Exarch with Bladestorm and 2 Catapults - 152
Wave Serpent for Dire Avengers with TL Bright Lance, Catapult, Spirit Stone, Vectored Engine - 165
6 Pathfinders - 144
10 Guardians with Starcannon platform + Warlock with Embolden - 138
5 Swooping Hawks + Exarch with Skyleap, Intercept, and Hawk's Talon - 168
Fire Prism with Holo-Field, Stone, and Catapult - 160
2 Vibrocannons - 100
2 Warwalkers with starcannon and scatter laser on each - 150
Total 1499 pts
So here's the plan:
Farseer will go with Dire Avengers in the Wave Serpent, they go hunt for crisis suits or fire warriors, using doom and guide. Harlies will try to assault broadsides or other good armor save things from a flank. Pathfinders will snipe at 2+ and 3+ saves from afar. The guardians will guard the pathfinders against deep striking stealth suits by somewhat surrounding them in the area terrain, and helping kill 2+ save things with starcannons. Swooping Hawks will sky leap multiple times to drop pie plates, or assault a nearby skimmer with haywire grenades and Intercept. Fire Prism is great for anti-tank, or anti infantry. Vibrocannons will glance vehicles and kill lots of fire warriors and kroot. Warwalkers will take on lots of infantry and can deal with broadsides if necessary.
So the question is, how does this list look?
Against 2+ and 3+ save suits (especially broadsides) I have:
Guardians with starcannon
Wave Serpent with TL-BL
Against skimmer vehicles:
Wave Serpent with TL-BL
Dire Avengers with Farseer
Anything I should change?
hmmm, it looks like a good list. I don't like those hawks in it but thats just me.
I'd say turn those harlequins into scorpions. Tau tend to struggle at taking them out and they're cheaper. Harlies will be either fish 'o furied out of the game or kill 1 guard squad and be left stranded.
Jetbike Farseer would be better as he can't doom/guide while hes in a tank. That way he can follow the tnak and do his thing without being shot up.
I don't like a warlock in a 10 man guardian squad, it just makes them cost so much more. Better to just risk your guardians running, besides even if they do its not a huge loss anyway.
I personally think vypers would be better than hawks here, they'll distract anti-tank and can pull off a LOT of shots. Your hawks will get hit by pulse rifles long before they can hit anything and guard have too many blasts to make deep-striking good. The rubberhawks tactic won't help you enough here.
These tactics require significant changes in the models though and you may not own them. If not then the list you have at the moment is good. I just don't like small hawk squads (don't live long enough).
Interesting idea, didn't think of that. I might try that, though I'll need to free up some points.Jetbike Farseer would be better as he can't doom/guide while hes in a tank. That way he can follow the tnak and do his thing without being shot up.I guess I just freed up some pointsI don't like a warlock in a 10 man guardian squad, it just makes them cost so much more. Better to just risk your guardians running, besides even if they do its not a huge loss anyway.I see your point, though partially I'm trying out units I haven't tried out (only got the army 1 month ago and played 2 games so far). I was thinking of just having the hawks do the deep strike, and sky leap immediately away during the movement phase (since Deep Strikes happens first). Use the pie plates that way. And if they just happen to be able to see a vehicle alone, use the haywire grenades. I can increase the number of hawks if that's the reason it bothers you... How would you use hawks? I want to try them in some scenario sometime... :yes:I personally think vypers would be better than hawks here, they'll distract anti-tank and can pull off a LOT of shots. Your hawks will get hit by pulse rifles long before they can hit anything and guard have too many blasts to make deep-striking good. The rubberhawks tactic won't help you enough here.no problem in changing tactics, since I have at least 1 full squad of every Eldar unit, and multiple vehicles, platforms, wraithlords, and walkers. Feel free to suggest.These tactics require significant changes in the models though and you may not own them. If not then the list you have at the moment is good. I just don't like small hawk squads (don't live long enough).
I personally see hawks as similar to warp spiders. They do less damage than their teleporting cousins but they have longer range and vehicle killing power.
I'll admit I've never used more than a minimum squad of hawks and I didn't like them, I couldn't tackle anything worthwhile and the blast won't make their points back. It always seemed to me that if I had a bigger squad I could take advantage of their first strike. Drop them on the fringes of the board, and combined with some other units try to tear apart a flank before my opponent gets a turn to start shooting.
However if you want to try them out I highly encourage it. I'm not an eldar god and the way I learn is friends and LO members trying out new tactics and discussing them with me. If your hawks don't work, meh, you've wasted some points who cares? If you make them work then its worth heaps.
I guess I just like scorpions against tau because I get incredibly good luck with armour saves (my games tend to roll really high for me and my opponents). Harlequins are weak against mobile firepower and that is by far the tau's biggest advantage. Besides suits are faster than harlequins.
You could buy/proxy some kroot mercenaries and surprise the heck out of him with his own guys. :w00t:
as far as I can see, hawks have gone from one nerfed state to another, they are no longer an exarch delivery system, but instead are an unhittable provider of blast templates, cant see me using them as using them fluffy they are not good at, and using them effectively seems rather hard on your opponent
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Good points Che and LordLink. Maybe I'll try out the hawks as the "effective but not fluffy" part, and if that's too powerful, I'll use them normally. They're definitely fast enough to catch crisis suits and blast them though, not sure if that's a good idea with some of the ion blasters. I did like the warp spiders quite a bit, but just wanted to try out the other fast attacks. Eventually I'll try shining spears and vypers.
Kroot mercenaries eh? Can everyone take Kroot mercenaries? Are the rules in the Tau book?
i'm not sure about kroot mercinaries i think its for tau only but don't take my word for it ...but coming from my point of view i don't know much about eldar but i know alot about tau .. as long as you have some close combat units you should be fine but i would suggest not going into a gun fight because of the big strength in there guns and because they have lots of armour piercing guns.
Eldar laugh at tau guns, 2+ cover and AV12 skimmer for the win. We can actually outgun the buggers.
Everyone can take kroot mercenaries except Tyranids, Necrons and the Inquisition. So yes eldar can (they are popular in alaitoc armies alongside scorpions).
The rules for them can be found here: GW Online : Warhammer 40,000 : Tau : Kroot Mercenaries
But your list looks pretty good as it is. Warp Spiders/Vypers would be more effective but who cares. Gotta try out everything.
Make sure to tell us how the battle goes.
The game went really well, and I"m very glad to try out some of the units. Eldar against Tau is pretty simple I must say. Also, thank you for the Kroot Mercenaries link. My friend brought probably 60 or so Kroot and Kroot Hounds, it was quite impressive. And the Kroot fired better than the fire warriors (at least he rolled better for them).
In the end, we played Seek and Destroy (Annihilation) and I think I won roughly by 2100 to 650 pts or so. I was able to get all three kroot squads pinned and running away after they dropped to 1/2 power, killed all his crisis suits when he deep struck them in to take out my wave serpent and dire avenger squad, and the war walkers are SWEET! They took out a broadside and 6 person stealth suit unit in two separate barrages. The starcannon is SICK, even with only 2 shots now!
Let's see, we played escalation, so the wave serpent with dire avengers got the full brunt of all the fire, but the serpent did take out a broadside with the TL BL, and the dire avengers killed a bunch of kroot before they got shot up by the kroot (yeah, it's sad) and ran off the board. Never got to use blade storm because I couldn't gauge 18" that well and everytime I was shooting I only shot a few kroot because of range.
The hawks (which I'll ask in a rules question) were ok, as you said. I got to drop 2 pie plates that killed 40+ pts of kroot each time, and they took out the devilfish using their haywire grenades and "Intercept". I can see them being useful at that, since 12" move, fleet, and charge can easily catch up to a skimmer or any vehicle, if they still want to be able to shoot. I'll consider using them in the future, but more for that purpose, though getting them to the vehicle will be hard if it's guarded. I think I like warp spiders a little more.
Vibro cannon worked really well here. It caused a glance on a piranha, and I rolled a destroy, yay! :yes: I really like the 36" range D6 thing, especially when both hit, then you get an S6 shot. Will have to try out the shadow weaver and D-cannon sometime.
The walkers were awesome. Scatterlaser/Starcannon combo is really versatile. Things either died of forced saves or the AP2, whether 2+ or 3+ saves. Can't imagine if I had 3 of those. Frightening!
My love for the Fire Prism will never end. It's a great tank. The farseer didn't get on the board until turn 4, because I used it on a jetbike as you suggested, so it didn't do much other than fortune the walkers and the vibrocannons, and doom some kroots (they were the only things within 24" when I got on the board. oh well. Escalation sucks that way.
So all in all a good experience. Here are my grades for all the units:
Farseer - A (typical uses)
War Walkers - A+
Vibrocannon - A (but against MEQ, it won't be as useful, but great against hidden vehicles)
Swooping Hawks - B (if they can leap after every deep strike, then A)
Harlequins - B (against Tau, they didn't really do much other than get shot up, too many deep striking things that got close to them before they can do anything. they're much better as counter-assault against a CC army)
Dire Avengers - B (didn't do much this turn, but I still like them)
Guardians - B (didn't do anything, but the starcannon killed a few things)
Fire Prism - A+ (I love this tank)
Pathfinders - B (usually A, but they were running away from infiltrating kroot the entire time to shoot)
Wave Serpent - A (TL BL is awesome, but too bad you can't get holo-field on it)
To try next:
Things I've tried already:
Warp Spiders - A- (not bad, I wish it had better AP or range)
Falcon - A (but doesn't have the versatility of the Fire Prism, just has more shots and you can have the starcannon on it)
Last edited by Kaerynthis; May 19th, 2007 at 05:46.
When using shadow weavers and 3 man jetbike squads /w shurikannons just remember they aren't meant to kill but claim objectives.
No other army in the game can get a (real) 30 point scoring unit, we can get an indirect one. That is valuable beyond belief in cleanse.