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I'm trying to figure out how many vehicles to keep for a potential mech eldar list (saim hann). The following is a VERY ROUGH list that adds up to near 2000 pts. The point is not as much to have a perfect 2000 pt list, but to assess the usefulness of the combination I'm putting together. FYI, I currently have 12 Jetbikes, 7 Vypers, 4 Wave Serpents, and 3 Falcon/Fire Prism combos.
- Farseer on jetbike with spear, Guide, Doom, Stone
- 2 Fire Prisms with usual upgrades (holo/stone)
- 1 Falcon with starcannon and usual upgrades (holding 6 Fire Dragons, Swooping Hawks, or Harlequins, depending on what I want them to do, or holding nothing at all)
- 3 x 2 Vypers, holding scatter laers/shuriken cannons (one with starcannon/catapults), spirit stones
- 3 x 3 Guardian Jetbikes with 1 cannon upgrade each squad
- 3 x 5 Dire Avengers with their Wave Serpents (all TL Bright Lances or TL Starcannons with spirit stones)
That's roughly 2000 pts (I can always remove weapons, upgrades, or units)
The question is, how good of a Saim Hann list is the above? Am I fielding too many Wave Serpents/Falcons/Fire Prisms? Too many Vypers or Jetbikes? Should I lean heavier to one type of vehicle than another?
Any comment you may have will help me decide what I need to keep.
Farseer - He's fine, though there are plenty of of combinations out there with psychic powers. For example, Eldritch Storm will enable him to fight off both infantry and vehicles and you could still have him guide or doom. Just some ideas. Offensive Farseers are just as useful as defensive/buffing ones.
Fire Prisms - These are fine. I could argue that with so many tanks on there board are you really going to be able to conceal off of them just in case you don't get first turn. Although Mech, perhaps some support platforms or Warwalkers for a defensive side, keep note that your entire army will end up in reserve should you end up playing Escalation. Perhaps these units could keep areas of the board free for a safe location for your vehicles to come out from.
Falcon - This is fine too. I would argue putting a Shuriken Cannon under mount too for a healthy amount of high strength shots, good against heavy infantry and monsteorus creatures, possibly against horde too should to combine with something else such as the transported unit. I would advise against putting swooping hawks in the Falcon since they have excellent movement anyway and are able to jump from terrain peice to terrain peice to avoid danger. Also keep note of their grenade packs. Harlequins is also arguable as they have pretty good movement as well, especially in terrain.
Vypers - In squadrons of two I recommend scatter laser and shuriken cannon mix, in squadrons of three I recommend twin shuriken cannons. These consider effective output of firepower for cost, though purely my opinion. I would avoid spirit stones to save points on other things, in addition to keeping vypers cheap, which is what they excel at.
Gaurdian Jetbikers - I advise giving each jetbike squadron a warlock with a singing spear and destructor. This will improve the squadrons output of damage against infantry and vehicles. With so many singing spears around you'll need not fear opposing mechanised armies.
Dire Avengers - I recommend boosting squad numbers up to a maxiumn of 10, reason being shuriken catapult fire is not the most reassuring killing weapon, with maximum mass shuriken fire you minimse the chances of a counter attack, which is quite high in squads of 5 against power armour. Keep note that the simple exarch with twin shuriken catapults and blade storm is very good as the transport ensures their chances of shooting first. As for the wave serpents themselves I recommend all twin-linked brightlances as you have very little in anti-tank as it is for a 2000pts game. If you insist in starcannons however I advise combining it with a shuriken cannon undermount to increase anti-infantry firepower.
Thanks Heiromyo! Great comments!
A few thoughts:
Farseer - I agree, if the powers weren't so expensive, I would take many more and use them as they come. At that point, might as well use Eldrad, right?
Fire Prisms/Concealing - With a mech army list, I guess you'll never get to conceal everything. I would probably conceal the expensive stuff like Falcons/Fire Prisms first, then Wave Serpents. But I don't know what other mech Eldar army generals use to conceal if they don't get first turn. As for Escalation, Support Weapons and Walkers also do NOT come on the board (I just played one a few days ago). Artillery and vehicles/walkers also start off the board... so yeah, if it's escalation, that would be bad...
Vyper: Agree with the scatter laser/shuricannon. With spirit stones, I'm taking them because what happens if a Vyper is stunned and cannot move, while the other one can? That means the other one is sitting duck too, and next turn will not get the fast skimmer glancing benefit for moving fast, right? That's why I got stones on all the vypers, to keep them moving.
Jetbikes - I like the warlock on jetbike idea. though that means I need to convert more warlocks onto jetbikes...
Wave Serpents - TL-BL it is. It's just a rough list, so I didn't put as much thought into how many anti-tank units I have.
I'll probably put harlies or striking scorps in the Falcons. And have a squad of hawks for tough to kill vehicles like the Monolith and other skimmers.
What do you think?
Farseer - Yeh the powers are a bit expensive but I was referring to different combinations of two psychic powers. I personally like buffing farseers but sometimes I feild units that don't really require such aid so I have an offensive Farseer with Doom and Eldritch Storm.
Falcons/ Fireprisms - Hmmm I guess you're right here about the support weapons and Warwalkers, though I can't remember exactly what units can start off on the board other than Troops. As for the issue with concealing vehicles, I have a friend who has quite a good Eldar mechanised army. He always conceals his vehicles whenever possible and relies purely on speed and concentrated firepower to win a game. Because of this reserved way of playing it's quite difficult to beat such a list, as well as this is is able to leave objective grabbing until the very last turn. However it is a double edged sword, if he does anything wrong it could lead to his army falling to peices, though I've yet to see that happen. *grumbles*
Vypers - I suppose you could think of it like that, most of the time I only reveal my vypers when I can combine their firepower with something else to reduce return shots. My previous comment still stands but your way is just as correct. If you ever become scrap for points it is better to unequip these guys though over something like a waveserpent or falcon etc Oh note that if one vyper cannot move then you can ditch it and move the others away, it means the one you leave behind is destroyed but it's still doable, remember that because you have two vypers the squadron does not count as below half and thus you still get the full squadrons worth of points when it comes to victory points.
Jetbikes - Yeh it would, it's not hard to do just takes time and money unfortunately. I've only converted one, it looks like the one from the eye of terror codex and consists of a jetbike, warlock holding witchblade with a shuriken pistol aimed forwards, an old farseer (more rather his spear) and some green stuff to mold the robes. There are a fair few pictures flying around in the gallery for referencing
Waveserpents - Thats fine, just remember to keep a close eye on your ability to both bust vehicles and infantry. In 2000pts I suppose I would try and have at least 4 dedicated anti-tank units (Waveserpents, firedragons, Fire Prisms etc) and possibly an additional 4-5 units that have the ablilty to hurt tanks in dire circumstances (Singing spear seers, swooping hawks etc)
For transport in a Falcon: Often you'll find Striking Scorpions not needing a transport because of their infiltration ability. However the need may still arise should you play games that do not allow infiltrations, though in friendly games this will be rare. Harelquins as I mentioned bfore will do fine in movement when terrain is dence, however if it's sparse then you can have the falcon transport them if you want to get them to safer ground before going on foot. Swooping Hawks will seldom need transportation because of their superior movement. With haywire grenades swooping hawks can assault a possible 24" and a minimum of 19". This depends on fleet of foot, but still, the movement is superior to that of being transported.
Thank you again Heiromyo!
Looks like the only thing is I need to find something to put in the Falcons. Probably 6 fire dragons is the best. Otherwise, I might give this list a try sometime!