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  1. #1
    Member stjohn70's Avatar
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    2000 pt Saim Hann semi-Friendly, semi-Competitive

    Greetings all,
    I am new to the Eldar - I have never had an Eldar army in the near 15 years I've been in the hobby, and I thought it was about time to change that. I'm interested in the all-jetbike/all-skimmer aspect of an army, so here is what I've come up with.

    I decided not to go with a Farseer. The sheer reason being that while he and a warlock unit may be hard to get rid of, they just won't affect the game as much as other units... I think. They're just so expensive to do mounted.
    What I'm currently unsure of is the second Autarch. One is beefy, but is two twice as beefy? I'm not sure. The other option would be to throw in another unit of 6 Guardian Jet Bikes (3 pts cheaper than the Autarch).

    Eldar Saim Hann, 2000 pts

    HQ
    Autarch, Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Laser Lance - 155 pts
    Autarch, Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Laser Lance - 155 pts

    Troops
    6 Guardian Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 pts
    6 Guardian Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 pts
    6 Guardian Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 pts
    4 Guardian Jetbikes, 1 Shuriken Cannon - 98 pts

    Fast Attack
    4 Shining Spears, Exarch w/ Shuriken Cannon, Withdraw - 192 pts
    4 Shining Spears, Exarch w/ Shuriken Cannon, Withdraw - 192 pts
    2 Vypers, 2 Brightlance, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 170 pts

    Heavy Support
    Fire Prism, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 190 pts
    Fire Prism, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 190 pts
    Falcon, Scatter Laser, Holofields, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 195 pts

    Totals
    1993 points, 32 Jetbike models, 5 Vehicles

    1850 pt level would drop 2nd Autarch, 1750 pt level would drop the 4 GJB squad

    Alternate List would drop 2nd Autarch, add 6 more GJB for 152, and upgrade the Falcon to have Shurikan Cannon

    ---
    Just recently I've been thinking about using Eldar Missile Launchers on the Vypers, instead of Brightlances - but am unsure what I would spend the addt'l 20 pts on.

    Thanks for your time and comments.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Fuzzy Wumpus's Avatar
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    Looks cool,but theres a few things I'd change.


    - Reaper launchers on jetbike autarchs are a waste. If you give him any guns,give him a fusion gun. And 2 is probably wasteful.

    - Like the jetbike swarms,but you might consider splitting some of them up into smaller groups to make them easier to hide in cover. Also,you might want to look into getting at least one group with a warlock. The singing spear can be a nasty tank-killer. And the group of four should probably be dropped,bikes should be fielded in groups of 3 or 6,4 only if the fourth is a warlock. In fact,if you dropped the fourth bike in the group and cut one of the other larger groups down to 3,you would have just about enough for 2 warlocks.

    - Shining spears don't really need to cannon. Give the exarch a star lance instead. Skilled rider might be useful too.

    - Vypers with brightlances isn't a great idea. If you're going to take vypers,keep them cheap. 2 Shuriken cannons or a scatter laser and cannon generally.

    - The tanks don't need vectored engines. Generally,the engines are given to a vehicle transporting assault units like banshees to keep them from getting entangled. But honestly,an immobilised skimmer is a dead skimmer, so I wouldn't really bother.

  4. #3
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn70 View Post
    Greetings all,
    I am new to the Eldar - I have never had an Eldar army in the near 15 years I've been in the hobby, and I thought it was about time to change that. I'm interested in the all-jetbike/all-skimmer aspect of an army, so here is what I've come up with.
    Hi, you may like to take a look at this:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...icle-army.html
    I decided not to go with a Farseer. The sheer reason being that while he and a warlock unit may be hard to get rid of, they just won't affect the game as much as other units... I think. They're just so expensive to do mounted.
    bike mounted farseers are very usefull and point of farseers is to vastly improve the performance of ther units, but for Siam Hann, autarchs are very fluffy (wild rider chief)
    What I'm currently unsure of is the second Autarch. One is beefy, but is two twice as beefy? I'm not sure. The other option would be to throw in another unit of 6 Guardian Jet Bikes (3 pts cheaper than the Autarch).
    The Autarch gets best results by sitting with a unit of shining spears, it nearly doubles the killing power of the squad and the squad gives him hit and run, if you got 2 squads of spears then 2 autarchs is fine
    Eldar Saim Hann, 2000 pts

    HQ
    Autarch, Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Laser Lance - 155 pts
    Autarch, Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Reaper Launcher, Laser Lance - 155 pts
    as previous poster, reaper laucher is pointless, stick to lance and bike, take either mandiblasters or banshee mask, the mask gives you certain first hits but is only necessary against realyl fast opponents, dont forget he has a shuriken pistol
    Troops
    6 Guardian Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 pts
    6 Guardian Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 pts
    6 Guardian Jetbikes, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 pts
    4 Guardian Jetbikes, 1 Shuriken Cannon - 98 pts
    dont like last squad, you would benefit from some warlocks in there, enhance helps them hit harder, but hitting is not their primary purpose, on smaller squads, embolden helps keeping them ticking, but also a singing spear in the squad will wory any tank
    Fast Attack
    4 Shining Spears, Exarch w/ Shuriken Cannon, Withdraw - 192 pts
    4 Shining Spears, Exarch w/ Shuriken Cannon, Withdraw - 192 pts
    is this 4+ exarck? hope so, the cannon is a little mute, the exarch desperatley needs a star lance, instakill, keeps Land raiders back etc, I find skilled rider is usefull to, allowign them to use cover to get close, but not as essential as the lance
    keep the autarchs with these squads
    2 Vypers, 2 Brightlance, 2 Shuriken Cannons - 170 pts
    as a rule, dont put 1 shot weapons on vypers, they only hit half the time and these guns tend to be the ones you depsperatley want to hit.
    by putting warlocks with spears in the bike squads you defer some of your AT requirements, this will allow you to load up on 2 shuricannon or scatter laser/shuri cannon vypers, but in any case, fiven your tanks, you dont need BL on these
    Heavy Support
    Fire Prism, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 190 pts
    Fire Prism, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 190 pts
    Falcon, Scatter Laser, Holofields, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 195 pts
    dont need VE - an imobalised skimmer is a dead skimmer
    woudl upgrade catpults on falcon
    1850 pt level would drop 2nd Autarch, 1750 pt level would drop the 4 GJB squad

    Alternate List would drop 2nd Autarch, add 6 more GJB for 152, and upgrade the Falcon to have Shurikan Cannon
    generally, Autarch needs to go with spears, spears can cope without autarch but are twice as nasty with one, so first option fine, second is less powerfull
    ---
    Just recently I've been thinking about using Eldar Missile Launchers on the Vypers, instead of Brightlances - but am unsure what I would spend the addt'l 20 pts on.
    Nooo
    EML/BL dont belong on vypers, pre the curernt codex, when Siam Hnn could have oodles of vypers but onyl 1 HS slot then you kind of had to, but now? nonononono, Vypers sit behind your bikes pouring str6 shots into infantry and transports
    Thanks for your time and comments.
    no problem, I love Siam Hann, but mine are curerntly resting up as with the new codex I made a new Eldar army, similar to Siam Hann but loading HS with War walkers
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  5. #4
    Member stjohn70's Avatar
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    Responses to suggestions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Wumpus
    And the group of four should probably be dropped,bikes should be fielded in groups of 3 or 6,4 only if the fourth is a warlock. In fact,if you dropped the fourth bike in the group and cut one of the other larger groups down to 3,you would have just about enough for 2 warlocks.
    I thought that I had to have a Farseer in my army to take Warlocks.
    I'm not overly fond of using 4 GJB, but I put 4 in that squad for 2 reasons. One, I'm used to using even-numbered squads to keep the unit scoring for as long as possible (also why I went with units of 6 instead of a bunch of 3's). And Two, I had about 30 pts left over.

    ---

    From other comments about the Autarch not needing the Reaper Launcher and that I shouldn't have the ShuirCannons on my Spears Exarch:
    I guess I didn't make the purpose of my army clear - I plan on shooting the crap out of my opponent. I need as much long/medium range weaponry as I can get. I don't have the model count to be able to assault early and often. The shining spears and Autarchs will attack, but only when I'm forced to, or the squads have been whittled to the point of a foregone conclusion for CC. The Shining Spears unit is 4 strong total 3 + Exarch (again for scoring unit purposes).

    ---

    Vyper comments:
    This is a struggle for me. I'm not fond of how fragile they are, nor their BS for this kind of weaponry. That said, I'm not sure that I can leave all of my anti-tank shots in the hands of my prisms & falcon. The whole reason for even including them, is to be able to provide a bit of "oomph" vs early game targets, and to perhaps distract fire from my big tanks as well.
    If the 3 vehicles is enough for anti-tank, then I may re-evaluate their purpose.

    ---

    On Vectored Engines:
    I may drop them. But in the Vegas GT, I immobilised/destroyed 3 Fire Prisms that didn't have them (5/5, 5/6, 6/5 - hey, my exorcists worked it for me). If they had the VE, then one of 2 things would have happened - either I would have had to devote more firepower to it to destroy it, or they would have gotten another turn of shooting. Both seem like win situations for the eldar.


    Thanks for the comments, I'll keep watching & learning.

  6. #5
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn70 View Post
    Responses to suggestions:


    I thought that I had to have a Farseer in my army to take Warlocks.
    no that is old codex, not the current one
    I'm not overly fond of using 4 GJB, but I put 4 in that squad for 2 reasons. One, I'm used to using even-numbered squads to keep the unit scoring for as long as possible (also why I went with units of 6 instead of a bunch of 3's). And Two, I had about 30 pts left over.
    other than the last point, that is another good reason to add a walrlock to 3 bike squad
    From other comments about the Autarch not needing the Reaper Launcher and that I shouldn't have the ShuirCannons on my Spears Exarch:
    I guess I didn't make the purpose of my army clear - I plan on shooting the crap out of my opponent. I need as much long/medium range weaponry as I can get. I don't have the model count to be able to assault early and often. The shining spears and Autarchs will attack, but only when I'm forced to, or the squads have been whittled to the point of a foregone conclusion for CC. The Shining Spears unit is 4 strong total 3 + Exarch (again for scoring unit purposes).
    OK really really read the article
    1. Autarch - he cant move and fire the reaper launcher, that is why it is a waste.
    2. Spears - theseare nott good to shoot with, you are putting a what? 200+ point unit? in line of sight for 3 shots you canget with 76 points of guardia jetbikes, complete waste, if you want to outshoot then dont bother with spears, or the autarch,
    Spears are an assault squad, they are only as difficult to kill as a guardian bike, if you starty shooting with them they wont last until the assault part of the battle. So if you are going to take them then use them as assault, that mean max out the squad size. On the bright side 4 spears, exarch and autarch = not a lot of survivors without shooting things up
    Vyper comments:
    This is a struggle for me. I'm not fond of how fragile they are, nor their BS for this kind of weaponry. That said, I'm not sure that I can leave all of my anti-tank shots in the hands of my prisms & falcon. The whole reason for even including them, is to be able to provide a bit of "oomph" vs early game targets, and to perhaps distract fire from my big tanks as well.
    If the 3 vehicles is enough for anti-tank, then I may re-evaluate their purpose.
    even iff 3 are not enough then the a fifty fifty shot from a vyper is not gioing to help, but by all mean evaluate, but at the same time evaluate teh 2 cannon or cannon plus scatter laser option, sure they are fragile, but less fragile than walkers and very mobile, these can tear appart side and rear armour, the only tanks that are immune are land raiders and monoliths, and because of this, the 3 main tanks can concentrate on these
    On Vectored Engines:
    I may drop them. But in the Vegas GT, I immobilised/destroyed 3 Fire Prisms that didn't have them (5/5, 5/6, 6/5 - hey, my exorcists worked it for me). If they had the VE, then one of 2 things would have happened - either I would have had to devote more firepower to it to destroy it, or they would have gotten another turn of shooting. Both seem like win situations for the eldar.


    Thanks for the comments, I'll keep watching & learning.
    *shrugs* VE need to go on transports for assault troops, otherwise, well try it and see, most armies, witch hunters asside with their lack of long range anti tank other than the exorcist, will drop you without breaking sweat once imobalised,
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  7. #6
    Member stjohn70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine View Post
    no that is old codex, not the current oneother than the last point, that is another good reason to add a walrlock to 3 bike squad
    Ok, I'll have to look into this aspect then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine View Post
    1. Autarch - he cant move and fire the reaper launcher, that is why it is a waste.
    ?? He can't? He's on a jetbike. Models on jetbike can move and fire heavy weapons and assault. At least, that's what the BGB says on page 54.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine View Post
    2. Spears - theseare nott good to shoot with, you are putting a what? 200+ point unit? in line of sight for 3 shots you canget with 76 points of guardia jetbikes, complete waste, if you want to outshoot then dont bother with spears, or the autarch,
    Spears are an assault squad, they are only as difficult to kill as a guardian bike, if you starty shooting with them they wont last until the assault part of the battle. So if you are going to take them then use them as assault, that mean max out the squad size. On the bright side 4 spears, exarch and autarch = not a lot of survivors without shooting things up
    I'm aware that their purpose is assault. I want to shoot up the enemy, but I'm not so naive as to think that CC won't happen. The spears are here to make sure that when it happens, it happens on my terms. In the mean time, they can do the whole jump-shoot-jump thing.


    I have hardly any of the models I need right now (1 Fire Prism & 1 Autarch), so this is going to be a long, slow process. I plan on getting some proxy games in with a good friend of mine, so I'll probably find out just how bad the VE & 1-shot weapons on Vypers are.

    Thanks again for quick comments!

  8. #7
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn70 View Post
    ?? He can't? He's on a jetbike. Models on jetbike can move and fire heavy weapons and assault. At least, that's what the BGB says on page 54.
    no it says weapons mounted on a jetbike, so the underslung catapults and cannons fire as static but the rider carried weapons dont, this also applies to SM bikers carrying plsama guns, although not to csm bikers whose plasma guns are bike mounted, replacing the bolters
    I'm aware that their purpose is assault. I want to shoot up the enemy, but I'm not so naive as to think that CC won't happen. The spears are here to make sure that when it happens, it happens on my terms. In the mean time, they can do the whole jump-shoot-jump thing.
    I know, this is how I play my army, it also means I rarely put spears in, normally the spears and autarch stay out, the HQ becomes a farseer, who for want of anything better to do guides 24 war walker shots, but point is two fold,
    1. if you want to outshoot him you need to have more or better guns, by dumping in excess of 500 points on spears/autarchs you are trying to outshoot an army a third as big again
    2. Spears dont need to charge weakened targets, with an autarch a full squad is very lethal on the charge, on the other hand as above, they are as easy to kill as guardian jet bikes and your opponent will target them as a high priority.

    Therefore spend the points on guns, your guardian bike squads can charge stuff in dieing turns that have been shot up, dont waste points on spears. OR
    fit out the spears squad and autarch for the charge, and get in there fast, avoid getting the squad shot up, this works best if your opponent has an uber assault unit, something like Demon prince and chosen retinue, a nice big jucey target for them
    I have hardly any of the models I need right now (1 Fire Prism & 1 Autarch), so this is going to be a long, slow process. I plan on getting some proxy games in with a good friend of mine, so I'll probably find out just how bad the VE & 1-shot weapons on Vypers are.

    Thanks again for quick comments!
    Again, read the tactica, by all means try out, different permutations, proxying is a good way to do that
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  9. #8
    Member Dire Avenger's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Cheradanine, having a unit of 5 spears just pop up and shoot 3 S6 shots is totally meaningless for their point cost. I´d rather charge with them on turn 2 and then be able to charge again on turn 3 than wait until turn 3.

    I would also go scatter laser/shuriken cannon on the vypers to stop transports outmanoevring you, and these shots make up for the shots you lost from the spears.

    I don´t mean you should remove the cannon from the squads, I´m just seeing it as a way of inflicting a few more kills before the charge, not as the main purpose of the unit. As stated 76pts gives you the same function albeit a lower BS.
    Currently painting The Pink Slaughter (Slaanesh CSM), Waaaaagh Bigtoof (Orks) for 40k/OnePage40k and UCM Ferrum 2nd for Dropzone Commander.
    Gallery:http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/us...tiebestie.html

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