Welcome to Librarium Online!
Just wanted to throw out something I thought could be competitive, but still different to the tried and true lists of today:
2 Shas'el with PR; MP; TA; HW MT
1 Stealth Team Leader with Markerlight; HW DC; 2 Marker Drones; HW TL
2 Stealth Suits
1 Crisis Suit Team Leader with PR; MP; TA; HW MT
2 Crisis Suits with T-L MP; TA
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui
9 Fire Warriors
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui
9 Fire Warriors
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui
9 Fire Warriors
1 Devilfish with DL
1 Fire Warrior Shas'ui
9 Fire Warriors
1 Devilfish with DL
1 Pathfinder Shas'ui
1 Devilfish with SMS; DL; MT; TA
1 Hammerhead with Railgun; 2 BC; DL; MT
1 Broadside Team Leader with A.S.S.; HW TL
1 Broadside with A.S.S.
1 Skyray with 2 BC; DL; MT; TA
Army Total: 1849
Total Models: 61
Total Vehicles: 5
HQ: I went for the duo Fireknife Shas'els because they have never let me down. I tend to play very conservatively with them, using their IC status and the range of their weapons to keep them out of harm's way. Don't recommend the Fusion Blaster - your recommendation will be turned down.
Elites: Deathrains are Deathrains. What more can you want? I have them there to free the Railguns of the list of transport/skimmer duty. Reliable and cheap, a wonderful combination. I got the Monat Fireknife to support the HQ's, as I tend to find Fireknives to be the most reliable in any situation. Now, on to the most controversial part of the entire list - my Stealth Suits. This thought occurred to me once before, but I never got a chance to try it out, but the idea plays exceptionally well on paper. Their stealth fields will keep them out of harms way (keeping them ~30" from the enemy). Their Infiltrate ability will let me set them in a good fire lane from turn 1 (unlike Pathfinders), and if they lose sight of their targets, they can move 12" to find a better fire lane.
Troops: I wanted to go with more of a hybrid list this time around, as opposed to pure Mech like I usually do. So, I figured that twenty Fire Warriors would be a reasonable static base of firepower, also able to take objective closers to the deployment zone. I then wanted to incorporate a more mobile element, so two standard Devilfish with twenty more Fire Warriors would suit that purpose well. I can have them where I need them, when I need them there, as well as taking objectives further away.
Fast Attack: Ahhh, Pathfinders. Everyone seems to have a love/hate relationship with these fellas, so I decided to love them. With that static elements of the list, as well as the two other squads in Devilfish, I figured that the Pathfinders wouldn't necessarily be priority #1 for the enemy, and more Markerlights can only help. I upgraded the Devilfish to a Warfish because I figured the other two transports wouldn't draw enough attention away from the Hammerhead, so a medium tank would help.
Heavy Support: To keep with the hybrid theme, I decided to get two Broadsides, dedicated purely to taking out the big stuff. When they can't shoot Land Raiders or Monoliths, I'll be having these bad boys hike it up the field blasting anything ranging from enemy Crisis Suits, to Destroyers, to Obliterators, to Eldar Guardians. Oops, overkill! The Hammerhead doesn't need explanation. As for the Skyray, I decided I wanted to make this a relatively large Markerlight force, and two BS4 Markerlights per turn will definitely help the rest of the army. Seekers aren't bad, either.
So, that's that. If you're going to criticize, please only leave constructive criticism! "Drop this, take that" isn't constructive, make sure you add the "because..." bit! Thanks!
Hey there. I think your list looks very interesting, and it looks like it would be a good list to play. I cant really see any faults or bad things in the list. I like the stealth suit squad though, I beleive that would work really well with all the markerlights combined with the stealth field, well done on that. Id suggest maybe spending your remaining points on a hw target lock for your stealth team leader, just so he can target a different squad with his markerlight if need be. Or maybe getting a hw multitracker for your broadside leader. You never know when those 4 extra shots from the smart missile system as well as the rail gun shot could come in handy. Keep up the good work.
Space Wolves (Under Construction) | Circle of Orboros (Under Construction)
I like the list, its pretty solid, very old school Hybrid and theres nothing wrong with that, i would advise maybe keeping a unit of Fire Warriors close to the Broadsides just to offer some protection from assaulter's (rapid fire is always a deterrent) and to force target priority tests.
I honestly would not bother with the A'S'S if you move the XV88's forward your just giving your opponent more opportunities to kill this already priority (in most opponents minds XV88's need killing fast) and the amount of movement hardly helps to gain LOS, I would take a HW TL and leave it at that.
Now to the stealth unit, bad idea, I do not like such small units and its horrendously expensive, also its illegal, if one stealth suit takes a support system then all the stealths have to take one (although they can take different ones).
So you have got your unit configured like this:
1 stealth team leader HW TL, ML and DC 50pts + 2 M Drones 60pts
2 stealths 60pts, you cannot have any support system (even free DC, see below for why)
A model with a drone controller must take a drone.
If the other stealths have a drone controller they must take a drone.
So your a drone short, hence illegal
So to make it legal you would have to have:
1 stealth team leader HW TL, ML and DC 50pts + 1 M Drone 30pts
2 Stealths DC and 1 M Drone each 120pts
Total 200pts OUCH 30pts more.
the problem with this unit is this, as I remarked earlier you have to have a drone controller on each Stealth so as soon as you take a hit (which you will) what do you do, well lets look at it:
3 stealths 3+ saves
4 Drones 4+ saves
Each drone is controlled, so you really must elect to lose a drone, if you don't you lose a stealth AND the drone (remember a drone under the control of a drone controller must be removed if the model controlling it is killed)
So you remove a drone and what do you know now we are in mixed armour territory:
3 stealths 3+ SV
2 drones 4+SV
You get hit and you have to take saves on the stealths (its the majority armour save) and if you fail you lose a stealth AND a drone OUCH again
Now you have lost half your unit and your testing, if you fail you fall back and cannot shoot the ML's
This is a bad expensive unit, at least with the pathfinders you get 8 ablative wounds (take a couple of shield drones and its 10), a Skyray can still launch seekers even if it is stunned etc (other ML can call them) and can move and shoot.
The unit seems like a good idea but when you really think about it they really are not, they are expensive and as I have shown have a fair few weaknesses which I think rule them out as useful.
Sorry to sound negative dude, just thought you would appreciate the heads up.
I do not think the stealth field would work that well because you have to stay stationary to shoot the ML's which means its a juggling act, do you stay put and chance a shot while that assault unit closes, or do you move and lose the shot.
Hey Lost Nemesis,
There are a couple of things I would suggest with the list.
The first and minor one is that the Pathfinders Shas'Ui would benefit from a Target Lock just like the stealth squad. The more possible units markerlit the better as far as I am concerned (or at least the option to mark more units is always useful).
Second, I am with Rikimaru on the stealth unit. Not so much for the reasons that he gave (though you do make some serious points Riki), more so because you already have 8 markerlights that can mark up to 3 (4 with a TL on the Ui) units a turn. I just don't think the third markerlight support unit is needed.
If you feel like you need the extra markerlights, I would instead make use of the static FW squads and put a markerlight (or drone) and TL on the shas'ui. It would save you a lot of points, you would still have the extra markerlights and you get a little more use out of the Fire Warriors that I am assuming you are going to screen the XV88's with. I would also max out the Path finder squad, but that's just me.
I don't care what you say. I found a lightsaber in my garage and that makes me a Jedi
the stealth team you suggested does indeed look good on paper, when you just look at the positive side they will bring. but if you add the negitive side i agree with riki its a bad move to use theese guys in a marker/support role.
if you infiltrate to get better firing lanes you are going to most likley end up closer to the enemys deployed units, and as this is your only inflitrating unit you can very easily get into a bad spot if the eneny also has units that infiltrate.
most armies have fast moving units of some sort (jetpackers,bikers,speeders with assultcannons!) and this unit will be a prime target if for no other reason than it is the closest unit you have deployed to your oponent. that being said... this unit will be moving ALOT to stay alive and my perdiction would be you will get off 2 marker shots IF the unit lives to turn 6.
if you want some marker light support i would suggest a 6-7 man fire warrior squad with a 'UI, bonded, markerlight,Drone controller,and 2 marker drones.
this unit is cheaper,has more wounds, does not suffer from mixed armor/toughness. and still gives 5-6 S5 shots at 30" instead of 6 S5 shots at 18"<which might not actually be able to hit the unit you are markerlighting with the leader due to range diffrences 36"-18"for the Burst cannons Vs. 36"-30" for the fire warrior squad..
" i once attempted to help an inquisitor who had stumbled over a cliff, but i couldn't help thinking no good was going to come of him yelling DIE HERITIC!!!"
RE: Drone Controller
Actually, Shadow is right - it's meant to be a HW DC. Changed in the above.
Riki, that whole post just to say I have to take two more drones? I got it, and thanks for the tip with the Fire Warriors hanging back with the Broadsides.
I took the A.S.S. primarily because I tend to play on a board with more LOS blocking terrain than actual area terrain, usually smack dab in the middle of the playing field. It doesn't seem like the movement does much but I assure you it does - I made much use of it using my Chaos Obliterators in a battle, so I like there as a just-in-case measure.
RE: Stealth Squad
As I figured, this is the only thing anyone's telling me to change. Here are the biggest things people have said is wrong with them:
The unit is small - yes, yes it is. But the small unit (in actuality only 1 wound less than a full Stealth squad) is easier to maneuver if need-be.
Infiltrate gets me closer to the enemy - how so? "Infiltrate" doesn't mean "get as close to the enemy as you can" or anything like that. Infiltrate, to me, means I get to deploy last, so I can deploy three Markerlights in direct LOS and range, starting on the first turn.
You have enough Markerlights - while this may be true, I fully intend on using all of the Skyray's Seeker Missiles during a game. I plan on making sure my Crisis Suits hit on 2+. I plan on making my Fire Warriors shoot at least as well as Marines. I plan on making my Hammerhead slam a submunition shot down at BS5. All of this and more - including denying my enemy his cover.
They are expensive - This is true, however I feel as though they will seriously perform better than anyone is expecting, and with those Markerlights be capable of "making" their points back for me.
RE: Fast enemy units
It's being said that the Stealth Suits can get caught by fast enemy units. While this is true, I have two counters to that, and a third "personal" one. I'll give the first two, to just counter the point:
First, I'm not certain that the enemy will put the Stealth Suits as his number one priority. Would you? After all, there are two other platforms for Markerlights, one even more dangerous (Pathfinders) as well as several vehicles floating about.
Second, I am not going to let that fast unit get close. If I have to, I will relocate with the Stealth Team - it's not that big of an issue. People have taken Broadsides sans-A.S.S. and relocated in a game, no biggie. Same idea. Also, I will simply blast the unit into oblivion if it gets too close - it's not like I don't have the firepower to do so.
As for my "personal" reason, I don't play fast CC armies. I play Eldar (non-Mech) and Tau (static) for the most part, and shooty Space Marines on occasion. Rarely, I play a 'Nids player but then I'll have plenty of firepower to take down his Gaunts.
Sorry if I didn't address a point any of you made, I am quite tired. If I missed something, feel free to say again. Thanks for the comments thus far. I hope I've shed some light onto my reasoning here.
My question for you about the stealth unit is, why would you pay 170 points for 3 markerlights? There are much better options for markerlight support, you could get another pathfinder team with a DF for that much.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.