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Now that I've got my whining out of the way and stepped off the ledge concerning my Necrons, I'd like a bit of advice v. new Chaos. The strength of his army as he's played it so far is the toughness of his Plague Marines and the Inv. save of his Thousand Sons, his ordnance weapons, and his HQ abilities. His weakness is mobility (negated by the Lash of Submission) and the high point cost of his troops. In our 1500 point game he brought a DP with wings, a mark, and the Lash, a Lieutenant with the demon weapon, a Vindicator, a Defiler, a Lascannon/Heavy Bolter Predator, a unit of 7 or so Thousand Sons with a Sorceror (they're slow, but get to fire their bolters 24" every turn and deny armor saves), 8 Plague Marines, 6 Termies, and maybe 6 regular Marines. In another game against Sisters he swapped out the marines for Raptors with two meltaguns. I brought 27 Warriors, 2x3 Destroyers, a Tomb Spyder (killed two termies), a Lord with Orb and Veil and 8 Immortals, and the Monolith. He phased me out using the Lash to nail one unit of Warriors and a unit of Destroyers.
I'm thinking that my best bet might be to replace three of the Destroyers with two Heavy Destroyers that could instakill his lieutenant, hit his tanks, or deny the Feel No Pain of the Plague Marines or the armor save of the Termies. He has low numbers, so the lost Destroyer shots could be overcome by the more effective HD fire. That would also get me close to 3x10 warriors to limit the damage done by the lash. If I hit even one Particle Whip and pick away at his tough units, I ought to be able to knock down those tough units of his, especially if objectives require him to be at half strength.
I guess my question is whether or not you think the Heavy Destroyers will make up for the loss of three regular ones. Against other armies I'd say no, since I'd do one wound instead of four or five. Against the Plague Marines in particular, however, those four or five wounds would have to get past an armor save and then Feel No Pain, and would be pretty useless against his DP and Lieutenant. The other option would be to leave the Tomb Spyder out and add a third Heavy D.
Use 2 Monoliths is all I can say.
And be sure to yell at him for using a Slaaneshi daemon prince in a non-slaanesh army.
Chaos pay through the nose for anti-tank now so they rely a lot on meltaguns (which of course your monoliths ignore) and you can go from there whipping things. Even picking out his lash and whipping it to death.
Basically you just need cc evacuation, scarabs to tie up his units, monoliths/veil to get you out and then just warriors to rapid-fire him.
I think thats the best way really, just dance. If you kill his ap3 sons (or hit them with scarabs) then you should be able to whether the rest.
Also pariah's screw over psychic powers such as the lash. And don't deploy forwards or else lash will get you for a turn 1 charge.
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I'd keep the Destroyers rather than heavy destroyers if you wanted to damage tanks or the thousand sons. Against the daemon prince both units should be about equal (although the normal destroyers are slightly better).
I'd suggest concentrating fire on the daemon prince as that lash seems to be your biggest problem.
How do the plague marines threaten you? If they only have bolters they could probably be ignored until they're the only target left.
I agree with the second monolith (if you have it): it is almost invulnerable, it ignores the 3+ salvation (with the particle whip) and it can teleport a unit of warriors in cc.
I'd also add 3 warriors to make 3 units of 10 man to minimize the lash efectiveness and make the change with the destroyers: in almost every situation, the normal destroyers are better, but against an army of 3+ or 2+ salvations and 12 AV tanks (the deefiler has 12 AV in front making the heavy destroyer a good answer to it) I think the heavy are better.
Last, add scarabs to tie up the thousand sons... and make the chaos player cry
Statistically it is better to have more shots than ignore the saves- even against 2+ saves (especially as thousand sons and terminators get an invulnerable save anyway). The only cases where heavy destroyers are better is against the plague marines and maybe the defiler... (does it ignore crew shaken or anything like that? if not I'd still just take it apart with glancing hits)
I agree scarab swarms would be great against the thousand sons marines.
The Defiler does ignore 1-3 on glancing.
As far as monoliths go, either take 2 or none at all.
I'd also suggest grabbing as many destroyers as you can. The HD will only be good against tanks and plague marines, so it probably won't be worth it.
If you use scarabs they will tie up the thousand sons for most of the game, and aren't worth anywhere near as much as the thousand sons are.
Scarabs can also make mince meat out of tanks (40 attacks on the charge with disruptor fields).
Plaguemarines could be chewed up by your lord (especially a destroyer lord).
Focus mass firepower on the D.Prince, that should take him out.
I don't really know how to deal with termies. Mass firepower?
Last edited by Zaraky; August 27th, 2007 at 18:03.
2 Monos in a 1500pts game - is it not too "riskey"? He can Lash your warriors into range and just phase you out that much quicker (due to low number of Necrons on the table). If you keep them hidden you are really only fighting with the Monos, Scarabs and Destroyers...
I am new to Necrons, so maybe what I said here does not make sense
I'm jumping on the band wagon and advising to take regular ole destroyers. Plus, if the chaos player is any good at all, he will keep his Independent Character safely behind other units, and thus, you won't have the chance of firing at him.
As a chaos player (and heavy advocate of the lash) duel liths is extremely difficult for 4th edition chaos armies. Your chaos opponent's build will have a particularly difficult time dealing with two liths, as he has very few options against it.
I'm guessing his tactics will revolve around getting the plague marines into c.c. with the lash, and using the Tzeentch marines as rapid fire support. As others have said, your only real defense against the lash is a flying circus tactic. With the chaos player having very little mobility, this should work fairly well for you.
Be sure to post result.
Last edited by Rabbit; August 28th, 2007 at 00:58.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately, I don't have another monolith or any Pariahs, so that's out for now. I came up with another option, however. If I leave the Immortals and Monolith out, I could bring thirty warriors with a Lord and Orb for support, a Destroyer Lord with scythe and phase shifter to go with 10 scarabs (I could have the Orb or disruption fields here), 2x3 destroyers, and 1x3 Heavy Destroyers. I'm tempted to leave the disruption fields out simply because 6 Destroyers and 3 Heavies ought to be able to take out his tanks if I get a couple of turns out of them.
I'm tempted to go after his Demon Prince with the scarabs and DLord. If I get the charge, He'd be hard pressed to kill my DLord immediately with only four attacks and an inv save, which ought to put at least one wound on him with the Lord and maybe another with the scarabs. If I can't kill him, he'd be stuck for five rounds of combat even killing a base of scarabs with every attack. Problem is, he'd then have killed twice his points. Having seen the advice, they might make better troop killers if he leaves any units hanging out in the open, while the Heavy D's could take pot shots at the Prince when he appears. He can only Lash one of them at a time.
The Particle Whip by itself could mangle his army, but I never hit with it, and the Veiling Immortals have scattered all over the place lately, even though I love them and say nice things to them. Friggin' machines! Based on what you've all said, I may give my list another try, but leave out the Tomb Spyder and take the thirty warriors, even though TS took out two terminators.
I've found wraiths quite handy. Less exp players don't anticipate 12"move thru wall and 6" charge with no terrain tests .
Tomb spiders are HARD to kill, and are MC so block Line Of Sight. If being shot is an issue you can use them this way.
Some1 suggested scarabs with Fileds, don't forget they can turbo boost 24" and get a 5+ invul save for doing so. I'd love to play your friend because i don't see much varience at my gaming shop, it's SM or CSM pretty much, o and cheese Daemonhunters/sisters.