Beefy Squads vs Numbers - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

View Poll Results: Beef or Numbers?

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • Beef

    8 16.33%
  • Numbers

    41 83.67%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Member Engine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hawthorne, CA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    7 (x1)

    Beefy Squads vs Numbers

    What do you think is better?

    Beefy squads make fabulous warriors

    But, numbers can overwhelm the enemy

    Last edited by Engine; October 2nd, 2007 at 05:48.
    The Engine has many powerful enemies. Some of them are war criminals. But he also has powerful friends. Some of them are coyotes.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member Xilconic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Age
    31
    Posts
    534
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    31 (x2)

    More bodies then your opponent can shoot down is always good!
    And a huge army aways has the "damn, how am i ever going to deal with al those critters" factor
    Tyranids Win [31]/ Draw [0]/Lost [0]
    Daemon Hunters Win [17]/ Draw [2]/ Lost [1]
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...t&uniqueid=232

  4. #3
    Member grimaldus53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Age
    22
    Posts
    168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    I usually go numbers over beef but I believe there needs to be a balance. Numbers with no beef means bigger things are hard to deal with and to much beef means you get shot down a lot faster. So there really needs to be a fine line of balance between the two.
    Never broken, Never fallen, Courage out of fear.
    "Those who give up often do not realize just how close they are to success when they give up."

  5. #4
    Son of LO Uzi-99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    86 (x7)

    Not voting, as it lacks the third option: "Depends on the unit". =)

    Some are best kept plain or with minimal 'morphs, while others should be beefed up to make them more effective in their intended role. The keyword is being cost-effective, whether due to plain numbers or beefed-up capabilities.
    "The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."

  6. #5
    Member Engine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hawthorne, CA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    7 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi-99 View Post
    Not voting, as it lacks the third option: "Depends on the unit". =)

    Some are best kept plain or with minimal 'morphs, while others should be beefed up to make them more effective in their intended role. The keyword is being cost-effective, whether due to plain numbers or beefed-up capabilities.
    You should specify the basic squads that should have beef or numbers
    The Engine has many powerful enemies. Some of them are war criminals. But he also has powerful friends. Some of them are coyotes.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Abraham Lincoln's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Barcelona, Spain
    Age
    31
    Posts
    907
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    64 (x2)

    I voted for numbers over beef, because anything short of a Godzilla army really has to push their numbers up.

    I think this is because in almost all non-Zilla armies, we really depend on getting into combat to unleash the pain. That also means we're not as efficient at shooting as most of our opponents, which can make the game both dramatic and dangerous for us nids (and FUN!). It's dramatic because for the first half of the game, it's going to look pretty bleak for us. We'll be getting blown to bits and we won't really be able to return that kind of firepower, besides a few cunningly-placed venom cannons or warp blasts to neutralise the meanest targets. But then, turn 2 or 3 when we finally hit combat, the game dramatically flips in our favor, and hopefully we still have the Numbers to win a fullscale assault.

    That's why the first half of the game is so dangerous for us - we absolutely need a huge mass of bugs because so many are going to be mowed down in the first stages of the game. Any sloppy mistakes at this point, like not ending your turn in cover, or synapse problems, or not stunning those dreadnoughts/landspeeders, can quickly result in a massacre early on that leaves the swarm inneffective.

    I can see where Uzi is coming from because some units, namely TMC's and Warriors are built in such a way that you really have to add a few upgrades to them to get their full potential. But even then, the secret is adding the minimal, purpose-specific upgrades to maximise efficiency with as few upgrades as possible - so as to squeeze a few more bodies in the list. Also, while you absolutely do have to invest in genestealers or some kind of elite/rending (rather than take an all-spinegaunt list for example), they may cost more points than gaunts but you're still going to skimp on upgrades because numbers are what counts for us.

    One more thing - a big problem with the soup-em-up approach is that besides carapace, we don't have any upgrades that increase our SURVIVABILITY against shooting attacks. Even then, gaunts with a 5+ save are going to die all the same against massed bolterfire. So what you end up with is a smallish, elite force that has an increased combat ability. But they stil have to endure the first 1-3 rounds of running through a firing range before they can hit combat. The result? Both of our armies will lose the same number of bugs, but I had twice as many to begin with, so at least i have SOMETHING still standing to hit them with.
    Armies:
    Tyranids: 2500 pts
    Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
    Witch Hunters: 1000 pts

  8. #7
    Senior Member Xilconic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Age
    31
    Posts
    534
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    31 (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln View Post
    I voted for numbers over beef, because anything short of a Godzilla army really has to push their numbers up.

    I think this is because in almost all non-Zilla armies, we really depend on getting into combat to unleash the pain. That also means we're not as efficient at shooting as most of our opponents, which can make the game both dramatic and dangerous for us nids (and FUN!). It's dramatic because for the first half of the game, it's going to look pretty bleak for us. We'll be getting blown to bits and we won't really be able to return that kind of firepower, besides a few cunningly-placed venom cannons or warp blasts to neutralise the meanest targets. But then, turn 2 or 3 when we finally hit combat, the game dramatically flips in our favor, and hopefully we still have the Numbers to win a fullscale assault.

    That's why the first half of the game is so dangerous for us - we absolutely need a huge mass of bugs because so many are going to be mowed down in the first stages of the game. Any sloppy mistakes at this point, like not ending your turn in cover, or synapse problems, or not stunning those dreadnoughts/landspeeders, can quickly result in a massacre early on that leaves the swarm inneffective.

    I can see where Uzi is coming from because some units, namely TMC's and Warriors are built in such a way that you really have to add a few upgrades to them to get their full potential. But even then, the secret is adding the minimal, purpose-specific upgrades to maximise efficiency with as few upgrades as possible - so as to squeeze a few more bodies in the list. Also, while you absolutely do have to invest in genestealers or some kind of elite/rending (rather than take an all-spinegaunt list for example), they may cost more points than gaunts but you're still going to skimp on upgrades because numbers are what counts for us.

    One more thing - a big problem with the soup-em-up approach is that besides carapace, we don't have any upgrades that increase our SURVIVABILITY against shooting attacks. Even then, gaunts with a 5+ save are going to die all the same against massed bolterfire. So what you end up with is a smallish, elite force that has an increased combat ability. But they stil have to endure the first 1-3 rounds of running through a firing range before they can hit combat. The result? Both of our armies will lose the same number of bugs, but I had twice as many to begin with, so at least i have SOMETHING still standing to hit them with.
    Hit the mark right there! +1 for you
    Tyranids Win [31]/ Draw [0]/Lost [0]
    Daemon Hunters Win [17]/ Draw [2]/ Lost [1]
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...t&uniqueid=232

  9. #8
    Member Engine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hawthorne, CA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    7 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln View Post
    I voted for numbers over beef, because anything short of a Godzilla army really has to push their numbers up.

    I think this is because in almost all non-Zilla armies, we really depend on getting into combat to unleash the pain. That also means we're not as efficient at shooting as most of our opponents, which can make the game both dramatic and dangerous for us nids (and FUN!). It's dramatic because for the first half of the game, it's going to look pretty bleak for us. We'll be getting blown to bits and we won't really be able to return that kind of firepower, besides a few cunningly-placed venom cannons or warp blasts to neutralise the meanest targets. But then, turn 2 or 3 when we finally hit combat, the game dramatically flips in our favor, and hopefully we still have the Numbers to win a fullscale assault.

    That's why the first half of the game is so dangerous for us - we absolutely need a huge mass of bugs because so many are going to be mowed down in the first stages of the game. Any sloppy mistakes at this point, like not ending your turn in cover, or synapse problems, or not stunning those dreadnoughts/landspeeders, can quickly result in a massacre early on that leaves the swarm inneffective.

    I can see where Uzi is coming from because some units, namely TMC's and Warriors are built in such a way that you really have to add a few upgrades to them to get their full potential. But even then, the secret is adding the minimal, purpose-specific upgrades to maximise efficiency with as few upgrades as possible - so as to squeeze a few more bodies in the list. Also, while you absolutely do have to invest in genestealers or some kind of elite/rending (rather than take an all-spinegaunt list for example), they may cost more points than gaunts but you're still going to skimp on upgrades because numbers are what counts for us.

    One more thing - a big problem with the soup-em-up approach is that besides carapace, we don't have any upgrades that increase our SURVIVABILITY against shooting attacks. Even then, gaunts with a 5+ save are going to die all the same against massed bolterfire. So what you end up with is a smallish, elite force that has an increased combat ability. But they stil have to endure the first 1-3 rounds of running through a firing range before they can hit combat. The result? Both of our armies will lose the same number of bugs, but I had twice as many to begin with, so at least i have SOMETHING still standing to hit them with.
    Excellent point, you've swayed me to change my vote but unfortunately i can't do that >.<
    The Engine has many powerful enemies. Some of them are war criminals. But he also has powerful friends. Some of them are coyotes.

  10. #9
    Member Tyrannis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    23
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    22 (x1)

    Numbers definately. As I have found out from experience, a small group of 5 normal Genestealers can take out a Dreadnought. But sometimes it is neccessary to take some Bio-morphs, like some Toxin Sacs on your Hormagaunts.

  11. #10
    Blood Boy Leech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,643
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    795 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi-99 View Post
    Not voting, as it lacks the third option: "Depends on the unit". =)

    Some are best kept plain or with minimal 'morphs, while others should be beefed up to make them more effective in their intended role. The keyword is being cost-effective, whether due to plain numbers or beefed-up capabilities.
    This is very true. Some units work best with huge numbers and some work better being beefed up. Zoanthropes for example aren't going to ever make a dent with thier numbers. However Zoanthropes are one of our best units when they are beefed up with psychic powers.

    On the other hand there is little point sending Hormagaunts with weapon skill five and intiative five to kill weakling Tau. Tau are pathetic in assault and as such super big tough nuts aren't needed to destroy them.

    The maximum points value for a Tyranid warrior is about seventy or something. This Tyranid warrior is rather crap. It has adrenal glands, bioplasma, enhanced senses, wings, toxin sacs, flesh hooks and symbiote rippers. All of this is assault stuff. It's weapons will however be a twinlined venom cannon. Basically beefing up models to the max isn't going to be good.

    Tyranid warriors however are very effective with rending claws. I use rending claws on a brood with deathspitters. They work well as a defence, people don't like to pick fights with broods that rend. They also work well as they close in as they can join in the slaughter instead of wandering around looking for a way to see past the assault and shoot something.

    This brood of Warriors works better with rending claws. Scything talons would be cheaper but it would offer so few options and tough types would be all over them. In this case I prefer spending a few extra points for superior ability. There are other upgrades that are helpful. Flesh hooks is lovely and very cheap, especially on Carnifexes in both cheap price and usefulness.

    I think I would like a third option of both work in the right circumstances. As both do work well. Also considering the new high WS and other nastiness of the new Chaos codex and the upcoming Daemon codex which will have all manner of god-like beasties, having some dedicated, hard-core killers makes good sense as well as cannon fodder to soak up thier attacks.
    Last edited by Leech; October 11th, 2007 at 22:08.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts