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Iím relatively new to 40k but Iíve got most of the basics down. Looking for a bigger challenge than using Necrons and because I just love the models I have decided to collect Eldar.
Simply I was wondering whether it is possible to create a close combat heavy Eldar force, specifically in the region of taking around 3 units of Striking Scorpions at 1500 pts?
Iíd like to know weather this whole concept is feasible, and if so;
(1) how should I kit them out (unit size etc)?
(2) how many units can I fit realistically into 1500 pts without them becoming a liability?
(3) what other units (Iím guessing Dire Avengers) best compliment Scorpions?
(4) is Karandras overkill or would he fit nicely into such a themed army?
I realise that this is a bit of a big ask for opinions on all these points, especially as some of these things will come down to personal choice and the rest of the force is relatively open, but it would be nice to get an overview of what you all think so I can consider all the points that may be raised.
One thing to maybe take into consideration is that 90% of the people I will be playing use Marines or Chaos so maybe take this into consideration when picturing the effectiveness of a Scorpion heavy force.
Thanks much for anything you may like to put forward,
Common configurations that I use consist of 6 total scorpions, with one being upgraded to the exarch using a scorpion claw and using the Stalker power. It's a basic setup that I would throw into a Falcon. I have also used them in groups of 8 using the same setup but also including Shadowstrike power... which effectively allows them to infiltrate.Iíd like to know weather this whole concept is feasible, and if so;
(1) how should I kit them out (unit size etc)?
Some people talk about that chainsabres are the worst weapon choice, or that the biting blade is more reliable or whatever, but the scorpion claw is one of the easiest all-around "good fits" and it looks awesome. =)The main setbacks that scorpions tend to have is that they aren't as fast as a typical eldar force. This means that you will either want to infiltrate them or transport them. However, the issue with infiltrate while being cheaper... is not guaranteed depending on what mission types you play. And the problem with transporting them is that you start to really burn up your points for a 1500 point game!(2) how many units can I fit realistically into 1500 pts without them becoming a liability?
Depending on your playstyle and mission type... I would probably recommend running two 6-man(eldar) squads with exarchs using scorpion claws. Transport them in Falcons for the easiest and quickest 'in your face' assault type. NOTE: some players feel that multiple heavy CC squads are considered fairly cheesey.Dire Avengers (one of my favorite units) are great shooty units when up close, their limited range is a large set-back against some armies. A new tactic I've picked up from a player I've met on 40konline is to use the Dire Avengers in the 'tar-pit' setup and mounting them in a Wave Serpent. They rush up field using star engines too (being mindful to not have your hatch blocked) next turn, drop, shoot/fleet, charge. The PW/SS setup the exarch can take along with the Defend power allows him and his squad to absorb tons of damage, even from high-threat close combat squads. Use them to tie up a squad or two, then bring in your CC monster squads and have them finish the job. NOTE: this works best with squads that can withdraw and gain charge advantages. See: Shining Spears/Harlequins.(3) what other units (Iím guessing Dire Avengers) best compliment Scorpions?
Other great units to use in that tactic would be Guardian Jetbikes, a Farseer or Autarch on a Jetbike. Perhaps Warp Spiders (another favorite) to keep up with the speed and assault capabilities of the army. Proxy some setups and see what you like best. It will come to you in time.I don't think he'd be overkill at all. In fact, he'd fit perfectly into a desired themed army such as the one you're looking to run. In a 1500 points game it might be very difficult to run him in it along with several Scorpion squads, even if you plan on just using minimum troop choices.(4) is Karandras overkill or would he fit nicely into such a themed army?
I have a similar issue with my army. I really love the look of the wraith-models and I'm planning on converting my Autarch over to look like a Wraith construct but use equipment and rules of the Autarch.
You could always do similar setups with your basic troops to make the jetbike riders even resemble scorpions or whatever. This way, you can maintain a fluffy theme for yourself and have some fun conversions.
Either way, best of luck and I hope to see an army list soon.
Eldar are quite nice, you mentioned the main reason why they were my first army ever back in the day.
I immagine as long as you have a mix of how you take them(scorps can take Wave serpents, I believe) and infiltrate they will be just fine.
I would suggest scorpion's claw, as it has worked well for me in the past.
Depending on how you want to transport them or not, is how you will want to consider which "kit" the exarch takes. If you put them in a waveserpent, then double avenger cat's is great, if not, the PW/SS is a good choice.
He is priiicy.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
You had the exact same mind set that i did when i choose eldar, i love the scorpions and i was going to go with 2 units with back up, i was also going to include the pheonix lord, Kara.
However, after looking at how that kind of army would play and the benefits and negatives it implied, i decided to go a more combonational route, i run 1 full scorpion group, and quite honestly the play of the rest of my army flow a lot from this squad. That doesnt mean that i have to take a lot of them for them to be devestation.
The biggest downside to 2 squads with Kara is that is a WHOLE lot of points, for a pretty easily beaten strategy. All it takes is a few units of focus fire to destroy a unit, and without kara having invulnerability saves (the flaw of almost all pheonix lords) they are easily taken out if just avoided until they come out into the open.
the way i set up my army is for a slew of compliments, any CC will work well with the scorpions, the faster the better, i see shinning spears in the this respect, with an autarch. they can speed up the feild, engage the unit cloest to the scorpions to provide some cover as they close the distance. once they are there, the spears can withdraw to do whatever else. spiders are fast and furious, they can harrass enough troops or vehicles to provide a distraction for your scorpions. i also a tar pit dire unit to tie up the important CC/HQ mobs so they dont tear up my scorpions. i also have a shooty dire squad to help keep things where i need them. then between the heavy choices (WL and prism for me) i can take out most hard hitting things before they become a problem.
as you can see the majority of my army is designed around getting my scorpions into the mob of the enemy to be the most affective, but i dont waste a lot of points on units that are going to end up getting killed before they do much damage. face it, even if you infiltrate, as soon as you break cover any unit on the board that can see you is going to be shooting the heck out of you, especially with kara in a unit.
if i were you i would seriously consider toning down the scorpion units for 1 large unit and considering others that would compliment it well as i have done. honestly dont think that a bunch of squads/points of scorpions is a very good army, but is an excellent squad choice (one of the best for eldar) they pack a punch, have good armor saves and can last. and as far as exarch choice, i would go with bitting blade, the extra str does make a difference (as that is the 1 weakness scorpions have against certain opponents)
Last edited by sinistersp; October 17th, 2007 at 21:34.
Heh just like me you have heard the lure of the scorpion, we will make an exarch out of you yet.
If you are going to do a scorpion heavy army go all out dont do things by halves, two large squads can take pretty much any foot sloggers in the 40k world with there stupid amount of attacks. Now their downside is that they are slow compared to most eldar and have little or no chance against armour, so you have to build the rest of the army to support them.
Falcons are generally my AT unit of choice bein both threatining to the enemy and fast, so they take heat away from the scorps which are the real damage dealers of the army.
The fire prism is also a great distraction but i see them doubling up on what a scorpion squad does (the units that you take out with a dispersed shot are the units that scorpions have no problems against). If you do use them keep them on AT. Oh and if you get a weapon destroyed remember you can tank shock 24" and remember to tank shock them closer to your scorps (it takes practise but youll get there).
For a troops choice I find guardian jetbikes invaluable take two largish squads to tie up the enemy's frontline and combat will block line of sight to the scorpions. Every turn they cant shoot your scorp's is a turn closer to their doom.
Well iv got to head out the door, but iv left a lot of units out i might get back and finish this up for you then.
Hope what iv put down helps, and remember its only my opinion
Well you have all certainly given me a fair amount to consider and il try and put it all to good use in an army list.
p.s. feel free to keep dropping advice into this thread should you whish, i'l keeping an eye on it, thanks once again.
Anyway where was i in my lil rant...
Ah the avatar my Hq of choice, he's big mean and a huge fire magnet. Put him just in front of the scorps and suddenly they are fearless. He also makes mince meat of dreadnoughts and tooled up HQ's things that can give the humble scorp a problem or two. Oh and never forget that the avatar is a monsterous creature and bocks line of sight so put him in between the scorps and things like guard tanks.
Wraithlords are good for most of the reasons the avatar is except they have greater range AT weapons available. Scorp / wraithlords are a perfect combination as wraithlords suffer from a low number of high strength attacks where scorps suffer (suffer??) from a high number of attacks at er average strength. Between the two of them there isnt much they cant handle. Again remember that the wraithlord is a monsterous creature and blocks line of sight. (I currently run two wraithlords and the Avatar as kind of a moving cover for my scorps, scary uber death cover from veitnam)
Vypers on paper look like a great suport unit for scorps, with their speed and weapon flexiblity but I have never got them to work right for me. Maybe its my style of play or maybe they should have scorpions driving them hehe.
Warwalkers are great, the huge ammount of firepower they dish out is brilliant. But and this is a big But they are soooo flimsy a chimera just has to sneeze in their direction and they fall down. Good if used properly bad if you use them like me (I always seem to think they are harder than what they actually are.)
Fire Dragons, banshee's etc... No good you have already used up all your elite choices.
Wave Serpents either get them for the whole army or not at all. They are expensive, so if you are going to get them go all out otherwise you will start feeding your army to your enemy in drips and drabs.
Oh and my personal favourite combination with scorps is the not so humble warp spider. Fast shooty and armoured a squad or two of these can give your army some much needed mobility and anti er most things firepower.
I know I havent covered everything but i well cant be bothered (honesty hurts) but hopefully iv been more helpful than harmful. And remember when in doubt PROXY!