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Something which came to light recently was the abundantly clear vulnerability of Crisis Suits to the effects of power fists and power weapons. Having got to thinking about it this doesn't appear entirely logical. After all, the Crisis Suit appears to be more of a vehicle than an actual suit, and is it really any different in concept to a mini-Dreadnought, an Ork Killa Kan, or perhaps an even better parallel would be an IG Sentinel?
It seems fundamentally unsound to me that, for example, a relatively puny Str 3 IG officer with a power sword (a power fist I have slightly less problem with but the overall principle remains the same) can slice his way through a Crisis Suit on the roll of a 5 (a 1 in 3 chance) and hence destroy it with relative ease, yet cannot chop his way through the leg of a Killa Kan or Sentinel. What is the material difference? We have to be talking about similar metallic constructs and structures after all ... ... ... Should Crisis Suits be given an AV like a Sentinel or a Killa Kan?
Or am I just being particularly dense here and expecting rather too much from the Crisis Suit??
What do the rest of you (better informed folks, I acknowledge) out there think?
(Bemused) ~ Ravenscraig ~
If you don't get smashed in close combat with powerfists,
you will instead be shot to smithereens with autocannons.
Either is good for me
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
I don't think that crisis suits should have AV - they are more lime termies than dreads I think.
They have nothing to do with vehicles imo but I agree that they die too easy - perhaps giving them higher T could help a bit - I'll like them having enough T so they doesn't get insta-killed by "ordinary weapons".
I believe when GW were playtesting them in the first place they had an AV of 10
But they said it didn't work too well.. so they gave them 2 wounds and a 3+ save.
They are less vulnerable that way.
If they get hit and wounded, they are still 100% effective
If they were hit they would be unable to fire or worse.
Crisis suits should not be in combat if at all possible, so that guard with the sword would have to rely on his big ol' missile launcher to take care of the suit.
I've had some success with my crisis suits charging the remnants of imperial guard squads. There multiple atks, high strength and good save means that it can be a nice way to clean up (if it means that they wont be exposed in the next turn that is..).
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
GW did already try using battlesuits with AV values but found that they are either too tough or too weak to use in games, even if the battlesuit does have an AV, a simple guard will sill have the ability of damaging it due to its low AV of around 8 or 9.
this would mean that powerfists, melta and high strength weapons would, almost certainly, automatically penetrate the battlesuit's armour without a single roll of the dice!
plus it would be rather frustrating to the Tau player if he/she had a squad of three Battlesuits with one Immobilised. meaning that the rest of the squad can't move until it is completely destroyed!
this in turn will complicate the game involving the Tau player to an extent that will possibly end up not getting played with again.
think of Battlesuits as Characterisitic enhancements like Space Marine Bikes, but better. this will make for an easy to play army without the hassle for treating them as Vehicles.
the Tau are only 2000 years old in their fluff, this means that they did not know that they would be battling against Space Marines with Power weapons/fists etc. and so their young technology is still quite fragile in terms of the sheer brutality of most of the creatures in the galaxy, and so, unable to counter it.
power weapons in general usually disrupts any electrical devices that it comes in contact with, as well as the victim itself getting inflicted as well. the easy wounding of the Battlesuit demonstrates the fragility of these machines as possibly even a fraction of a volt will most likely critically damage its systems which, in some cases ie. a Marine with a powerfist, will hold as much power to completely blow everything within it. with the poor Tau commander inside it dying as well (as he is sitting right in the middle of it).
i sure hope this clears some of it up for you
i'd always rather have wounds than an AV.
look at wraithlords or carnies compared to dreadnaughts....miles harder to kill.
you can stun a dread every turn but you can never instikill a carnie or wraithlord, meaning they take alot more concentrate fire to take down.
plus as said above you don't want to lose a turn when one suit gets imobilsed and the rest of the squad have to leave him or wait til the next turn.
i agree with the majority of the people in this article that wounds are better than av when it comes to battle suits and think sick people hits the nail on the head, and if your battle suits are in combat with IG you must be doing somthing wrong even through it can be hard to keep them out of combat.:happy:
A single hit with a krak missile on a Crisis Suit has but a 1 in 6 chance of not killing the suit, every other outcome will kill the suit outright, due to the double toughness rule. Conversely, that same single hit with a krak missile on either a Killa Kan or a Sentinel has a 1 in 6 chance of doing nothing (if my memory serves me correct on the AS of these vehicles). Does this seem reasonable?
Turning to the point of the comparison with Terminators then I do take that point, but then Terminators have a 5+ IS, the Crisis Suits don't.
I still think Crisis suits appear to be overly vulnerable given their apparent construction.
~ Ravenscraig ~
i do wish that crisis suits had power fists though like termies.....would be nice to beat up a carniefex every now and then!
but I fully understand and love our lack of CC ability. and if i get caught in CC i deserve to get swept!
being that the Tau are a relatively young race, they are still learning to adapt to this hostile galaxy.
Battlesuits are made in huge numbers, modding them up to have a built in Shield Generator will slow down this production to a point where badly needed forces would be overrun by the enemy. Tau industries cannot afford to change their manufacturing of the Battlesuits, especially their current design.
It will take time to make those modifications on such a large scale, hence the Earth Caste won't be changing their designs in a hurry.
it's true that some battlesuit commanders have got their own modified battlesuit, but that is an Experimental version of that type. not mass produced.
Terminators on the other hand, are blessed to the Imperium (what else is new?), this is represented by that Flower-thingy on their shoulderpad being a tiny amount of that worn by the Emperor himself.
or gifted by the Gods of Chaos, when looking towards the Chaos side of things.
that tiny amount of metal that came from the armour of the Emperor, is said to have protection capabilities to further protect it's bearer, made weaker by its small amount hence the 5+ IS.
sorry to burst your bubble here, but Tau Battlesuits with CC weapons? unfluffy to their way of war.
Even if a Powerfist has been attached to a Battlesuit Variant, it's would still critically interfere with the Battlesuit's systems. eventually destroying the machine in relatively short time.
Good idea though, but no