Welcome to Librarium Online!
For the Dire avengers it seems like the shimmersheild/powerweapon with bladestorm and defend would be the most resilient combo. Is this worth it compared to diresword or 2 SCats? Does the Powerweapon/shim combo count as 2 weapons for +1 attack purposes?
I guess the real question is how to use DA's? Should I be focused on using them to hold up melee, or are they a shooty kinda squad. I could see them being amazing at countercharging incoming melee units. Once they get close .. move ... hit with a bladestorm followed by an assault for 3x9= 36 strength 4 shots ... and then the extra +1 A for assault with a defend (cutting them to 1A) .. shimmi... and a powerweapon (S3 but still a power weapon). Top it off with a doom and guide and even tough elite CC squads would melt, or at least become useless. Am I getting the right idea here?
Also when it comes to guardians it seems painfully obvious that the scatter laser is a better choice then the star cannon. Agreed? Whats a good place to get that weapon (sprue wise) as I only have the old school weapons platform with a starcannon or SC. Do they have it as a bit?
Thanks! I humbly await your wisdom.
all eldar options have their uses in the right situation it just depends on what you need the squad to do. if you want them to kill everything before it reaches them then dual cats is effective but leaves them vulnerable to everything with good armor penetration. if you take the shimmershield it does keep them alive a bit longer but you sacrifice a lot of shots to do it. The dire sword lets him keep a pistol (still bladestormable) and a force weapon effective against multiple wounds. In the right situation each one of these can be effective just find out your playing style and equip your units accordingly.
Just to add on a little bit, you should customize your DA to do a single purpose. Fortunately, there's only 2 general purposes.
1- Shooty death: 9xDA + 1 Exarch with bladestorm. Dual cats or shuripistol+sword, your choice. This is designed in conjunction with doom, to either force a ton of armor saves, OR just plain kill things with bad saves. You can follow this up with a charge, to wipe out the unit if you so choose.
2- Tarpit. 9xDA + 1 Exarch with SS & Defend. This is designed, in conjunction with fortune, to hold off whatever evil killy squad you don't want touching your other units, or to hold off something for your banshees or harlies to kill.
Both just as effective, depending on the situation and what your army needs.
Dreams give us a vision of a world unlike any we have seen. They present us with a glimpse of a better life; a goal to aspire to, and in the face of insurmountable odds, they provide us with the power to overcome, to live on, and to succeed where we would have otherwise failed.
The scatterlaser is generally prefired on guardians as far as I can tell.
However against termies and MEQs out in the open the starcannon is still better.
Really neither of them is all that great for the points in my opinion. Certainly worse than the guardians you had back in 3rd.
The shimmershield doesn't count as an extra weapon, so you only get your base 2 attacks + charge bonus - if you want more attacks and a more versatile but less of a tarpit then go for the diresword and shuriken pistol - it can be bladestormed and you get an extra attack in hth.
On BS3 guardians it is generally good to run multi shot weapons to make up for the misses. Scatter lasers are just a good all round gun - high enough strength to threaten light - medium vehicles and wound almost everything on a 2+. Sure they don't have a brilliant AP but the get a lot of shots. Star cannons are still the favourite if going against MEQs though.
As for what sprue to get for teh weapons either the war walker sprue or the new platform sprue (as well as falcon and waveserpent) have all the weapon choices on them in plastic! I recommend attaching them with a magnet so you can change guns as you wish.
Well, in response to the DA question I run a mech. list so I always run a Shuri cats Exarch cause if I get into combat then things have gone really really wrong. But in a footslogger list I could see the use of other variants.
Veni Vidi Vici
"The plan is to win, if we don't win its cause you guys didn't follow the plan!"
Eldar: 25,000 pts
Although I see the point in specializing do you guys think its viable to have a squad with both defend and bladestorm with a shimmy/pw in a small (1000pt) game, to act as both a tarpit and dmgdealer (footslogger like army list)?
It is more effective to take a unit with bladestorm, defend, and shimmer/PW. You still get plenty of shots, but you can still stop an enemy in their tracks. Its only 177pts for this unit at 10 strong. So its kind of pricey for 1000pt list, but still reasonable for how flexible
However this raises the debate of if you should take multi tasking eldar units. THe answer is no, you should not, but this set up for DA is pretty good, good enough to playtest to see if you like it.
But for a mech list, two shuris is the way to go, so you can put out a ton of shots then reembark and run on out of there.
For Guardians, the answer is to take both. Starcannons and SL have there uses. You may need both in a single fight. If you look at a mirror match versus an eldar player, you need SL to burn troops and light infantry. But SC can eat the elites alive. that AP 2 versus MEQs more often than not makes up for the loss of shots.
Dire Avengers can be very flexible indeed when an Exarch is added to the squad. Depending on the equipment given to the Exarch the squads’ role on the battlefield can be very focused or quite multi-functional. However, unlike some other Exarchs a Dire Avengers upgrades aren’t as cost effective so it is recommended not to over spend.
Avenger Shuriken Catapult:
The basic small arms weapon which the rest of the squad carries. Although he won’t sport much combat hitting power the weapon is free, as such with this he can happily spend away on Exarch special powers, the weapon itself is relatively good in supporting the rest of the squads role.
Twin-avenger Shuriken Catapults:
The Exarch sports an addition Shuriken Catapult, thus allowing him to unleash twice as many shots. This is a relatively cheap upgrade and adds more shots to the squads’ total. Combined with Bladestorm this weapon lends itself to a heavy shooting unit. Highly useful when finishing off opposing squads or supporting other units with suppressive fire.
Diresword and Shuriken Pistol:
This choice adds a power weapon to the squad. Although the Diresword functions like a Force weapon it is not as potential and only has a minor chance of knocking out characters in a blow. This choice is cheaper than the power weapon and Shimmer Shield option and offers defence against combat with heavy infantry, a good choice when points are considered but otherwise a shimmer shield will better protect the squad against combat. However keep note that the Diresword and Shuriken Pistol combination also gives the Exarch a bolstered amount of attacks unlike that of the Shimmer Shield.
Power Weapon and Shimmer Shield:
This combination is the most expensive of all the Exarchs choices in weaponry but it is also the most useful in defence against combat for the whole squad as it gives all members an invulnerable save. This offers a good protection from opposing squad leaders that may carry power weapons that would normally cut through the Dire Avengers armour while the Exarchs own power weapon offers a retaliation punch, although he will have limited amounts of attacks. Because of this, the Power Weapon and Shimmer Shield can be considered as a purely defensive upgrade and not offensive. But saying that, the combination works well in offence when supporting other units in combat when the Exarch and his squad can combine their combat potential with someone else. They also work well as a barricade to prevent opposing infantry from advancing further, the inclusion of the Defend Exarch power will reduce the number of return attacks directed at the squad. You will even be able to hold down Terminators for a few turns. Even though the invulnerable save is not the best in the world it is greatly improved with the aid of a Farseer with Fortune. Both Bladestorm and Defend Exarch powers compliment this weapons upgrade well, the inclusion of these power enables the unit to be both offensive in shooting and defensive in combat, but this becomes an expensive choice to combine all three.
This power enables the Exarch to reduce attack directed to his squad in combat. It is quite an expensive power but it greatly reduces the amount of offence they take making it harder to kill them all. A good upgrade to take if the squad ever considers taking on an opponent in close combat weather it’s at a defensive or aggressive nature.
Like Defend this power is quite expensive but it does allow the squad to unleash a large volume of shots that can easily cut down medium and light infantry but also threatens that of power armoured foes. A good power to take when considering shooting heavy Dire Avenger squads. Useful in finishing off squads for certain or adding shots in a combined effort with other units, but when facing heavy infantry like space marines it is unlikely that Bladestorm alone will be able to wipe out a whole squad. Very useful when used in conjunction with a Wave Serpent as the Dire Avengers gain an advantage in striking first. When considering purely offensive shooting a unique combination of Blade Storm and a Farseers Eldritch Storm and Doom psychic powers work very well in thinning down an opponents infantry, with both Avenger Shuriken Catapults can Eldritch Storm being the same range it should be rather easy to get both the squad and Farseer Shooting.
These guys are much cheaper than Dire Avengers but they also have less survivability. However this does not make them any less useful as they are one of the few troops choices that has access to a heavy weapon that can move and shoot, without the lose of the Fleet of Foot ability. By being able to use Fleet of Foot they are able to get to cover fairly quickly and improve their survival chances. This also makes them highly mobile support squad that is also quite inexpensive and depending on the support weapon given to them, can fulfil various roles on the field.
However, because they’re cheap does not make them cannon fodder, being armed with shuriken catapults they can provide enough fire power to knock down squads or severely reduce their size and because of their decent initiative and numbers they can push in enough attacks in close combat to tip the balance to your favour. Be careful when doing this though, as the opponent can also use their frail nature to provide enough kills for him to win the combat instead. Because of the wide selection of heavy weapons they can have access to they can compliment any force make up. However keep note, unlike Dire Avengers, Guardians aren’t very accurate when shooting, this makes using a single shot weapon quite unreliable.
The most expensive heavy weapon choice available but it does offer some hard hitting anti-tank firepower. Being single shot it’s not the most reliable source for anti-tank but if the army is lacking in this department this is a fairly decent weapon to take. Keep note of how you expose your Guardians when using this weapon as the tank will probably bare its guns upon them should it remain unscathed.
Eldar Missile Launcher:
A moderate costing weapon and also a single shot weapon, but it does offer the multipurpose choice as it can deal with vehicles and troops. Given its longer shooting range it means the Guardians can sit far back to fire pot shots without fearing much return fire. This type of set-up will compliment those armies that prefer shooting from range.
Probably the most cost effective weapon that Guardians have access to even though it’s not the most deadly. The weapon can produce a high rate of fire at a high strength which suits the Guardians well due to their low ballistic skill. Its high strength also lends the Guardians to shooting down light vehicles should no other weapons be available at the time. The weapon also has a reasonable range so it can be fired from a safe distance but it does still lend itself to close ranged support like the Dire Avengers. This is probably the weapon of choice for most.
The cheapest heavy weapon but still definitely worth every point. Like the Scatter Laser it has a high rate of fire at a high strength but it is quite short ranged in comparison with the other weapons. Its rate of fire isn’t as good as the Scatter Lasers either. But for a simple upgrade this is the perfect weapon for the more offensive Guardians squads who will always be heading for the front, due to its very cheap nature it is possible to field many squads with these weapons for a very low cost. Useful when the army is need of bulking out its numbers otherwise a Scatter Laser is better.
This is quite an expensive upgrade but it has the best hitting power against heavy infantry. Although it has got multi-shot capabilities it isn’t that impressive, but when dealing with hardened infantry like Terminators or Tyrannid Warriors it’s enough. Like the Scatter Laser is has a decent range and high strength so the weapon can be used from a relatively safe distance and can also target light vehicles.
Despite the various types of weapons Guardians have access to their light armour will likely work against them most of the time; also they cannot take and hold objectives very easily unless accompanied by a Farseer. A support role is what they are mainly for although given enough Guardians they can make a very fearsome offensive force.