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    webway : where exactly ?

    where would youplace your 2 portal, ideally ? 12/24/36... spread equal ? behind cover? what can afet disposition ? what can block deployment ? (ennemy at 1' ?)
    thks

    Luc
    (newby in DE)


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    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    This is a good question that usually gets over looked - a portal location is very important and its tactica is rarely asked for so kudos to you!!!

    The only times I deploy the portal in the first turn (so we are looking at a portal on the 12" deployment zone with the diameter of the portal sticking out about 3" beyond) is when facing extremely fast armies like Orks and nids and some armies that have alot of infiltrators or fast attack units. With these armies coming at you at full speed there is little need to get the portal close to the enemy and there is a bigger need to get all your units out of reserve and deal with the horde rush. I have at times completely forgone the portals altogether in order to have all my units ready on the board to kill off the horde rush sooner.

    The other threat of getting too close to the enemy is the chance of the wwp deploying unit getting killed off before dropping the portal. Even after deploying the portal you would need to keep the portal clear as the enemy can and will try to block it (if they didn't already shoot the unit to pieces) so this too must be in consideration to when and where the portal should be placed.

    Also, another note on dropping the portal in the 1st turn is the both the chance of not getting all your units at once and the chance that the battlefront (where you need your reserves to be) has changed and not where you expected it - this can really be a problem when units are coming out of the portal in a bad location and need a turn or two to get into position. I have no doubt in my mind that I have lost games soley due to the bad location I panicked and dropped the portal early.

    So, for first turn drops (which I rarely do or recommend) and second turn drops I would consider dropping a portal near my deployment zone when the mission objectives are in the middle of the board (12" away from where I start). "Take & Hold", "Seek & Secure" and even "Cleanse" you can get a good position on a portal location by dropping it right on your 12" deployment zone edge between the loot counters - this means units coming out of the portal are less than 12" away (because of the diameter of the portal template) and will either be in contention of the loot counter straight out of the portal or will be able to engage any enemy contending it. Same goes for "Take & Hold" games where I like to drop a portal within 12" on either side of the take and hold counter for the same reasons as mentioned earlier. Even in "cleanse" missions a portal can be place on or near the boundaries of a neighboring board quarter and allows you to claim or engage enemy units.

    As for the other missions, "Seek and Destroy" and "Recon" a first turn drop would be a serious challange as your units coming out of the portal would have to travel farther and thus be vulnerable due staying on a raider for over a turn. I have a personal rule to never let a unit stay on its raider longer than a turn if I can help it - its pretty hard to hide a raider completely and my opponent usually always find a way to see it. So for these two missions (and playing against a fast enemy) a 2nd turn drop at a forward position is most beneficial.

    So I do prefer the 2nd turn drop - it allows more of my portal units to be ready at the same time and come out at a forward position. The method I like most is having at least one of the portal carriers on a raider (or have the option to start on a raider) move for 12", deploy for 2 more inches and declare a separation of the IC from the squad. Now the IC can either fleet into a better position or stay screened where he stands. The other portal carrier will have the same options - either start on foot near a large foot squad or also start on a raider. Having the freedom to put the wwp carrying IC in either situation allows me to have the IC in all levels of missions to be able to start on the board regardless. In escalation mission even having 1 portal carrier available is not a risk as the opponent will also have fewer units on the board that could possible threaten my carrier.

    Now as for where specifically to drop the portal I tend to keep the portal carrier in cover on the edge if possible. Usually I would have the option to either drop it partially in cover terrain or in the flat out open - this also depends on the enemy threats, mission and terrain. Is the enemy near or far? is he still trying to block the portal? Is there cover for the units to hide behind when they come out? etc., I do not usually put it completely in terrain as it could slow down foot squads or cause dangerous terrain test for bikes and the Talos.

    What can block it? For me at our store anything can block it if it covers it and doesn't allow me to start 1" from the enemy so the enemy only has half of it covered and can claim my unit can come out of the other side over an inch away. I apply this reasoning to any model (skimmer or not) that can cover the portal and not leave 1" of portal open. Some may argue this but its really clear to me that if I dont have over 1" to start my movement from then I can't enter the board. Does this destroy all units coming out of the portal? No, its blocked and the units can come out when/if the portal ever gets cleared. I take certain measures to ensure the portal is protected and not blocked so that is part of the gamble with deploying the portal late - you still need to keep it clear through your opponents turn.

    So there is my personal tactica on how I determine where to put the portal. In a nutshell:
    Drop on the 1st turn against fast armies & infiltrators
    Drop on the 1st turn if the other carrier gets killed outright (you lost 1st move)
    Move 6" or 12" inches and drop on the 2nd turn
    Drop within <12" of an objective marker
    Drop near or in area terrain if possible to help hide units coming out
    Assign a squad or unit to keep it clear for at least 1 turn

    As for who drops the wwp and the units that start on the board to help is a different tactica in itself.

    Hope this helps - it just my personal opinion and will differ with other members.

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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    I agree with everything here (especially the Skimmers being blocked idea) but must diverge on the “Does this destroy all units coming out of the portal? No, its blocked and the units can come out when/if the portal ever gets cleared” statement.

    1. When the portal has been activated all Reserves successfully rolled for must come onto the board (page 85 BGB under the Heading “Note”),
    2. When the portal is yet to be activated then all Reserves successfully rolled for may be held back until it is (page 15 Codex.
    3. And the portal must be surrounded to be blocked (DE FAQ v4).

    This means that if you have rolled for reserves coming onto the table (a compulsory action) and you cannot complete this action they are destroyed.

    Harsh but that’s how I see it.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

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    Two things that I've seen done to be careful of:

    1) Monoliths and Drop Pods. In one game I Dropped my portal turn 2 and then my opponent dropped a monolith directly on top of it (well, almost directly). It covered it up and thus I couldn't exit it. Granted, this works with other deep strikers as well but since those can scatter on to enemy and not die, they are better (in addition to being big and cover up the portal by itself).

    2) Lash of Submission (new Chaos codex version). My opponent wasn't running a fast army but he had his chaos lord lash my squad of guys who were hiding in cover and then moved them towards his own guys and out of cover (and then proceeded shred them). Lash is really nasty and if you are going against a Chaos player keep it in mind.

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    well, thanks for all that details.. lots of good points indeed...

    -to clarify, if I put it down turn 2, that means I hav to wait start of turn 3 to start rolling reserve rolls, right ?

    - a lord that has no retinue, but supposely joined a raider team, may not rolls all dices right, hence may exit the portal lonely and be on foot, or potentially the raider may be out, and no lord on board, right ? ( the aim of having the lord separately is ? 12 ps assault, or IC do not shoot rules , or ?..)

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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toloran View Post
    Two things that I've seen done to be careful of:

    1) Monoliths and Drop Pods. In one game I Dropped my portal turn 2 and then my opponent dropped a monolith directly on top of it (well, almost directly). It covered it up and thus I couldn't exit it. Granted, this works with other deep strikers as well but since those can scatter on to enemy and not die, they are better (in addition to being big and cover up the portal by itself).

    2) Lash of Submission (new Chaos codex version). My opponent wasn't running a fast army but he had his chaos lord lash my squad of guys who were hiding in cover and then moved them towards his own guys and out of cover (and then proceeded shred them). Lash is really nasty and if you are going against a Chaos player keep it in mind.
    Hi,
    concerning enemy models that try to deep strike onto the portal - tell your esteemed opponent that the portal is treated as impassable terrain in most respectable tournaments and the blocking of the portal can only be echieved by "surrounding" it, not by occupying it.

    How does one model such as the Monolith surround anything?

    And if they ask to see where that is written give them the grand finale - the portal is an "off the table" area and if they insist on camping there then they are going to get sucked into the warp and destroyed, just the same as if they scattered off the table.

    Now I know this is bending the rules slightly but I wouldnt hesitate to quote this if they are going to be that narky and DS onto an already established area of the table.

    The Lash, well ouch as it is nasty.

    Cheers.
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

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    Member Gardeth's Avatar
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    Ive always been rather wary of portal armies and after what I've seen at 2 recent events I've gone to, I'm not sure I'll ever run it.

    At both events someone brought a WWP portal army and both times they played a friend of mine running marines with =I= allies. In both of those games he was able to neutralize both wwp carriers in turns 1 and 2 by either sniping them with vindicare or by blasting the squads with land speeders. True this is a rare circumstance, but unless your willing to deploy completely out of line of sight (thus making it harder for units coming out of the portal) or put it on a IC and give him alot of covering squads (1 isnt enough against some armies, especially chaos armies with the lash, shudder.)

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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitaime View Post
    well, thanks for all that details.. lots of good points indeed...

    -to clarify, if I put it down turn 2, that means I hav to wait start of turn 3 to start rolling reserve rolls, right ?

    - a lord that has no retinue, but supposely joined a raider team, may not rolls all dices right, hence may exit the portal lonely and be on foot, or potentially the raider may be out, and no lord on board, right ? ( the aim of having the lord separately is ? 12 ps assault, or IC do not shoot rules , or ?..)
    Hi Mate,
    The answer to Q1 is No, you activate the portal in turn 2 so that it is ready for use in turn 3 but you start the rolling for Reserves on turn 2.
    Confused? I know it the numbers that got me at first but just check page 85 in the Rules Book, photocopy that out and stick it into your Codex next to the entry for Webway portals.

    You always are allowed to start rolling for reserves from turn 2 but you can drop the portal any turn you like.

    The answer to Q2 is again supplied on page 85. You have a Lord that you want attached to a Raider team and you want them all embarked when deploying, that is “All aboard, the train is leaving!”
    In this case you have to roll 2 dice, one for each of the units (Lord and Raider Squad).
    If you roll successfully for both, then the Lord can choose to be embarked.
    If you roll unsuccessfully for both, then only what succeeded can come onto the table.

    Hope that’s clear as it can get confusing!
    In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

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    thanks wickywacky1

    still a confusion left:
    assuming
    turn 1 , I run, turn 2 I place the portal.

    - when do i roll dice for the reserve, turn 2 end or 3 end ?
    - when do my first troup exit the portal: early turn 3?

    or do I roll dice turn 2 early, but they come only once the portal is set, end2 ? or end 3?


    also, do they all get placed, then move? because there may be little place left around the portal , with 2-3 raiders and 1 ravageurs, all within 2ps of the portal..

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    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitaime View Post
    - when do i roll dice for the reserve, turn 2 end or 3 end ?
    You always roll for reserves at the begining of your movement phase - so the first rolls of reserves starts on the begining of turn 2 even if the portal isn't open. Roll for all the reserves that are dedicated to the portal and make a note of who was "ready" - they will stay "ready" and there is no need to roll again for these units, they will remain "ready" until the portal is open.

    This is where the portal is so precious - if all your units are ready to come out then you have this sudden wave of units swarming the battlefield like angry hornets. If you drop the portal 1st turn then you dont get that swarm - you will most likely get 1 or 2 units ready and that doesnt have the same "shock" potential.

    - when do my first troup exit the portal: early turn 3?
    If you drop the portal in the shooting phase of turn 2 then yes, the portal reserves would enter the game in your movement phase of turn 3 (which means your portal carriers have got to protect the portal through your opponents turn).

    or do I roll dice turn 2 early, but they come only once the portal is set, end2 ? or end 3?
    You roll dice in movement phase of turn 2 - regardless. They never come at the end of a turn, they only come in the movement phase which is at the begining your turn (not the end).

    also, do they all get placed, then move? because there may be little place left around the portal , with 2-3 raiders and 1 ravageurs, all within 2ps of the portal..
    This is how I do it:

    Roll for reserves - make a note on your list.

    Move all my forces that are already on the board (in order to get an idea where I need my reserves and to make room for the reserves coming on the board).

    Then I move my reserves from the portal by measuring from the edge of the portal template. So a raider would measure 12" from the edge of the portal template.

    Hope that helps.

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