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Shootas vz. Sluggaz (new codex)

3K views 52 replies 20 participants last post by  Zephyr_the_AzureWind 
#1 ·
Now, heres a debate ive been having with Tossy on chat.

Slugga Boyz have to charge in close combat, but are better at it then shootas (they have to cos they suck at shooting)

Shoota boyz are slightly worse in combat but are ok at shooting.

I thinkk Shootas> Sluggas in this edition for footsloggers, just more versatile.

Anyone with the codex want to post an opinion? i want to see what comes up.
 
#2 ·
I had this same thought over the weekend and came to the conclusion that it depends on the Army Type you make and what play against. The new Ork Waaagh "almost" guaruntees you'll be able to charge in Turn 3 and any turn you Waaagh in you can't shoot. Thus if you utilize a Wierdboy/Warphead in your army, then Slugga boyz are likely a better way to go, especially if you go with 2 Wierdboyz/Warpheads, since you're hoping to Waaagh a lot and thus won't be shooting.

Also, if you go with 1 or 2 footslogging units and several mobs in trucks/on bikes, then by the 2nd round there is going to be a lot of CC on the board and thus not much for that foot mob to shoot at.

I will definately have many different lists and utilize both Shoota and Slugga Boyz. After a few games playing the new Dex I'll have a better idea of what lists to use Slugga Boyz with and which ones to you Shoota Boyz with.
 
#3 ·
completely agree



These were my exact thoughts also. Everyone is hyped over the 18 inch shoota. However, the way I look to run my orks i'm hoping for 1 round of shooting at best. IE boys in trukks. Which brings the question: Who is better. I'm looking when i'm mounted in a truck I go with the slugga/choppa option for the extra attack as the extra shot just isn't as important. When I play my badmoons with primary shooting I go with the shoota boyz for more dakka.

Also I agree, if your going with the Warphead/Thrakka combo, you should be using the slugga boys as with running full speed ahead with fleeting your not shooting anyway.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
2 rokkits



I'm figuring a rokkit in the 12 ork mob honestly. Figure put a rokkit on the trukk, and a rokkit in the mob. That way you get 2 str X AP X shots. There have been times i'm moved forward 13, and unloaded 2 rokkits in the old edition to pop Predators or dreads on turn 1. Figure 6 squads with a trukk each. Ork player gets turn 1, that's 12 rokkits volleying on turn 1 just from the squads as long as you don't move 24. Not too shabby. Even orks should hit something... should.
 
#7 ·
LoL, "should"!

I'm just not sure if all those points are worth it. Between your 6 Trukks and 6 Squads that's 90 points in Rokkits! In the old Codex it was a mere 30 points for all that. But the increased cost of Rokkit Launchas now makes it seem like points better spent elsewhere. Granted the decreased cost in Boyz lessens the point gap there, but I'd still rather use the points elsewhere and blast my Trukks up full speed and behind cover on turn 1.
 
#8 ·
Well one problem that may erupt from using the shoota boyz is their nobz can't take PK via RAW. Since in order for your nob to take one it needs a choppa to get a PK. Of course that could be just rule lawyering. Either way I think I'll be using shoota boyz on foot and slugga on trukz as everyone is saying.
 
#9 ·
lol, this debate is going almost the same way as on chat

it would seem they both have advantages and some deep strengths and weaknesses which is why you exchange for free i guess
 
#10 ·
LoL, "should"!

I'm just not sure if all those points are worth it. Between your 6 Trukks and 6 Squads that's 90 points in Rokkits! In the old Codex it was a mere 30 points for all that. But the increased cost of Rokkit Launchas now makes it seem like points better spent elsewhere. Granted the decreased cost in Boyz lessens the point gap there, but I'd still rather use the points elsewhere and blast my Trukks up full speed and behind cover on turn 1.
I'm with monkeyclops on this one. Exposing trukks to enemy fire to get the opportunity to shoot rokkits seems too dangerous to me. I'd rather have a turn 2 charge with a PK if I need to pop tanks.
 
#15 ·
shootas v choppas- I think they're pretty close to being equal, which is cool. choppa boys are going to be a bit more effective for general Ork "gettin' stuck in", but as mentioned, the shootas do provide some nice versatility (taking down random rhinos or skimmers makes me drool). I'm planning on using both, though I have many more slugga/choppa boy models.

I'm thinking a unit of sluggas leading the charge, followed closely behind by a unit of shootas. shootas go dakka as the sluggas either charge their way into combat or soak up the charges of faster units.
 
#17 ·
I think it gets overlooked that shoota's aren't meant to stay shooty. They are basically there to join their choppa wielding friends in CC but they're laying down some harassment as they come in. With that out there, I'd personally prefer to have my unit of shoota's out front and my slugga's bringing up the rear in close formation. Shoota's are going to bite it anyway, crappy save and sitting targets...so may as well let them absorb a charge if I have to so that my sluggas may counter charge with the Waaaaaagggghhhhh. If, while they wade in, they manage to kill some one with the shooting : great. If they don't they still have done their job.

60 shots into a unit aught to spell atleast a few deaths but more often than not it is just as well that they keep pushing forward where they are infinitely less vulnerable (Seeing as most guns have atleast ap6) to return fire.
 
#19 ·
New Codex

From what I've read in the new codex, the Shootas and Slugga/Choppas are supposed to stay mixed. This alleviates the problems in the past that came from over-specialization. The shooty Orks keep a few nearby units at bay until the choppy Orks can attack!

"It's a simple matter uv lookin' out fer yer mates!" -Orkynonymous
:drinking:
 
#22 ·
Not really. I think even with a turn of shooting (Which is about all a shoota mob should get should the Waaagh! roll well) backing them up as they charge in, the extra attacks sluggas have would even it out. They may have to be in assault to use their extra attack, but their gonna hit more often then a mob of shootas are due to our relativly good WS and poor BS.
 
#24 ·
I don't play Orks, but have been hearing a lot of good things(bad for me) about them. If the new shoota gun is assault, not rapidfire, and Orks are still base 2 attacks, then a shoota squad is now very nasty. 18" range that can move and shoot, and then assault, with more attacks then the basic shooting infantry of any other army, but with more models on the charge. Even with out being able to add a PK.

Although for trucks, I think the sluggas/chappas is a must, since you have much less models, and with the truck you don't care about being able shoot while you move across the table. I have heard that the big nasty thing the slugga/choppa squads can do is get 20+ orks into combat with the "hidden" PK which you can't kill before they widdle down your unit.
 
#25 ·
Personally I favour a nice balance between the two. The choppas are around to cause a few more CC wounds while the Shootas provide some covering fire. Also the idea of sticking a mob of 20 shootas with a weirdboy for the potential tellyporty fun is a must. (Although sticking him with a mob of tankbustaz could also be fun).

On the subject of the shoota nob being allowed to have a PK, I think the answer is yes. My proof, in the most recent white dwarf Phil Kelly, the author of the new codex, plays in a battle report wherein his shoota mob is led by a PK-toting nob. Case closed I think regardless of fiddly writting in the 'dex.
 
#30 ·
On the subject of the shoota nob being allowed to have a PK, I think the answer is yes. My proof, in the most recent white dwarf Phil Kelly, the author of the new codex, plays in a battle report wherein his shoota mob is led by a PK-toting nob. Case closed I think regardless of fiddly writting in the 'dex.
And if Phil Kelly fielded twelve Ork Dreadnoughts in a non-Apocalypse army, would you say that that's legal as well? I think not. I'd say it's best to wait until the codex is out, and if needed, an errata posted before assuming these things. :)



 
#29 ·
Orks are still not good at shooting, but the new codex really has given them some nice tools for shooting. If you take shootas you will still need to have large mobz when you really only hit 1/3 of the time. But the are now times were the shootas are better suited. But than again there are still places were the sluggas are better off.
 
#31 ·
they would not have invented a word like Dakka if they weren't ment to take shootaz...

And taking a pk in a with shoota boyz a waste points, you could have more dakka if you don't take it.
 
#32 ·
And taking a pk in a with shoota boyz a waste points, you could have more dakka if you don't take it.
That could be argued, especially if you take into account the Ork Boy's greatest strength; a high number of attacks, and Furious Charge. Even with Shootas, Ork Boyz will get three attacks when charging, on top of the hail of assault fire that they shoot the couple turns before. Adding a Power Klawed Nob instead of a Shoota Boy is not a waste of points by a long shot if you keep in mind that your Orks will still likely do more damage in close combat than they will shooting.



 
#34 ·
Not really if you can charge with shootas you should charge. You will get 3 more chances to kill things with them and a good sized mob will wipe out almost anything after the shooting and the close combat. Also in close combat chances are you will get your amour save. They are still made for close combat not a gun line. They have assault weapons for Christ's sake.
 
#36 ·
Flash gitz have changed so much. They look like some thing you race up in a battle wagon, shot and assault. After all they are nobz in eavy armour. Same for grots.

Now back to topic.

Say 20 slugga boyz fire pistols and charge a squad of marines and guardsmen. (for comparison.)

20 slugga shots 6-7 hits 2 wounds on marines with luck one dead, and about 2 dead guards.

Charge marines hit first 9 attacks killing about 2 orks. Now orks attack 72 attacks killing 6-7 marines. The orks wound wipe out the guardsmen losing maybe 1 ork.

The shootas shot 40 shots 13-14 hits killing 2 marines and 6 guardsmen (face it guardsmen wiped out either way) Shootas charge losing 1 or 2 orks. Orks attack 54 attacks killing 4-5 marines.

So really it evens out to be the same outcome in the end.
 
#37 ·
Fair enough, my guess is though, that sluggas are better to mount in a trukk, they get the extra strength when charging, and are much better against heavy infantry, due to the fact that in combat, they can do more damage than shootas in continued rounds.
 
#41 ·
I think one big advantage of the slugga/choppa comes when you consider the slowness of Ork infantry and their difficulties getting the charge against fast cc enemies. There are many, many cc armies and units that thrive on speed and mobility coupled with deadly charges. Face it- orks are going to get charged. Alot. These same armies are going to be fast enough that they will be able to avoid most or all rounds of ork fire before assaulting in. Thus, shootas will be largely ineffective against these types of foes. No shooting, and significantly fewer cc attacks. These extra attacks afforded by the slugga/choppa combo can often tip the balance of the combat toward the orks, either in the first or second round of fighting.
 
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