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So I am thinking of incorporating a unit of harlequins in to my army the unit will be between 8 to 10 models and include a troupe master and shadow seer and a couple of Harlequins will be armend with harlequins kiss
so the question is what can this unit do for me that striking scops or howling banshees can not
also is this how a unit of Harlequins should look or am I shooting my self in the foot
In the Harlys WD, Phil Kelly mentions that even his Scorps with Stalker have trouble occasionally. Their ability to ignore Difficult Terrain is very useful.
They can take on anyone in combat and come out better off. Hordes, Banshees struggle against because of their low strength, and Power-armoured infantry, Scorps struggle against because of those %&*@# saves. Herly get the best of oth worls, loads of high strength attacks that power-amour wearers hate. They can also go head-to-head against monsters and win, with those Rending attacks.
Another note, the flexibilty of Hit and Run is awesome. The ability to disengage is great. The Scorps and Banshees have to stay in combat until one unit flees, making them risky in protracted combats, whereas the Harlys can simply move out and attack someone else, or jump back in with those lovely charge bonuses.
Finally, the Shadowseer makes them pretty much invulnerable to Heavy weapons, something the Banshees and Scorps will always struggle against (my Marine opponent likes his Devastator Squads). The Master gives them Ld 10, which means they will likely stay in a losing combat, should the need arise.
As for your question, I take as many Kisses as possible. My opponent's beginning to dread them engaging now because they do so well in combat, even his Assault Marines led by a psychotic Chapter Master have a hard time against them, especially when my Harlys get the charge. You need a Shadowseer, she is well worth the points and boosts the unit considerably. Think about it, if you have a unit of 10, the Plamsa Grenades cost * points per figure, and her other abilities come at no charge. Another one to take is the Troupe Master. He's inexpensive, he has a cool statline and a free weapon of combat-oriented destruction. i wouldn't bother with the Death jester. My Harlys see combat ASAP and subsequently have no need for him (a shrieker cannon vs another potential 4 Rending attacks).
I hope you get them now, this post took a long time to write .
Plus you know you want them because you have asked to be pursuaded, what better models do you have to paint?!?!?!?!
And as for squad config, thats exactly how mine are.
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thank for the feed back so far i sort of do wont to get some because i really like the fluff for harlequins
but as to the painting I am unsure if I have the skill but that’s another thread
As to the death jester my reasons for not taking him where that harlequins are really a close combat unit my war walkers falcon and fire dragons can take on veilcals. And there rather expensive for what you get
Where these your reasons
I very much so agree with the comments everyone has used before, plus halries get Fleet, whereas scorps don't. I love it when I roll 40 attack dice and have like 6 turn up 6's against marines, or even better against Nid zilla.
As far as painting goes, they don't have to look all colourful and such. Pick up the Harli White Dwarf, I painted mine like one of the examples there... They look more like a group of mimes that a group of jesters. I also shaved down all their faces to the flat mask and painted it shiney black, I think it looks cool. My clolours were alternating large sections of black and white. Eg. right leg white, left leg black, left upperbody white, ight upperbody black. etc. etc.
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But as long as your opponent is willing to charge his cc supersquad against your harlies you are fairly sure to come out on top. Harlies will generally do well against other elite cc units.
The typical setup for a footsloggin harlie squad would be close to what you mention, but with more than a couple of kisses. Those rending attacks is what really makes the day for harlies. So give kisses to most of the squad, and maybe leave a couple without them so you have some cheap casualties to remove. Jester is not my preference, as I usually want my harlies running instead of shooting, or trying to stay completely out of sight. In my opinion a jester just confuses the role of harlies, so I would advice against him.
Harlies bring a lot of stress and tension to the table. The opponent will use a lot of attention on them, but so will you. Lasguns, splinter rifles etc. etc. even the weakest ranged weapon will do outstanding against harlies, so your margin of error is very small. Banshees, and particularly scorpions are much more forgiving when it comes to this. And that is one of the reasons harlies are not overall a better choice for a cc squad.
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Harlequins are a very good unit, that is very very useful in close combat and can take down a number of enemies. They are fast, hard to see, and destructive.
As it has already been said, I advice against the Jester. He does mix up the role of the unit, and I also advice against using the pistols, incase you were condistering it. They also can take away a bit of the usefulness of the squad as they kill what you shoot at, maybe dropping your charge range, and also they distract you from your rightful targets, the infantry.
I personally don't use a full squad of harlequins as the margin for error, their save is horrible, is so big. I have seen a sqaud of harlequins charge and get very FEW 6's. And then the hidden powerfist in the squad smacks them apart because of that save of theirs.
The way you are planning to fit out the harlequins can be very effective, but it is also a bit of a double edge sword, because one unluckly fleet, a bad charge, or a lucky spotting role from the opponet will tear through their low save. And just like that there goes your expensive unti of harlequins. And they are rather expensive on the table.
I see harlequins as a counter assault-unit, instead of a main assault. A sqaud of assault units will hit your lines, or will counter assualt maybe your banshees, and the harlequins are AMAZING at saving the day. Suit them up in the back of a falcon with a master and power weapon and 5 kisses. You will always be able to easily clear up your assault problems.
Harlequins can turn out great as a main assault, but due to the low save, even with a Shadowseer in there to hide them, a lucky or unlucky roll can kill them. And there goes your close combat powers. If you do take a sqaud in this manner, use them with 5 or 6 kisses, a master, a seer, and the rest normal harlequin.
They can be destructive, but I personally advice against using them like this. If you want to use them, they are a counter assault unit, not a main assault. This is my opinion, try your own fashion, but there is a rather large chance of the harlequins just going away and bampf gone. This Stragety can work well, but try Banshees in a wave serpent with a farseer that has doom and fortune. I have had that squad and the farseer drop marines and ork hordes alike.
Try it out for yourself, the squad can do well. But in my experiance, Harlequins are not made for a main assault unit. Just to hard to keep alive when they are seen, or don't do a severe amount of damage the first time around.
as above, harleys are fast, difficult to get hold of and lethal, they can do everything either banshees or scorps can do with 2 exceptions: infiltrate and transport in larger squads, but they can do more besides.. eg super heavy tanks? no problem!
They are superb appart from one small hitch, if your opponent has a remotely mobile shooting squad then the harleys are dead meat, stuff like necron destroyers, bike squads, even tac squads in transports will eat harleys given half a chance, anything that deep strikes can be added to the list
Add to the the fact already discussed in several threads, that whilst most opponents fear harleys, they cause an equal ammount of worry in the player using them, "Will his VOT roll mean he can shoot me to bits before I get to charge?" "will my fleet roll leave me short of charge range, standing 7 inches away from his squad and asking for him to take a 2 inch move and rapid fire my ass?"
ultimatley therefore they can be a blessing or a curse, my son tends to run a couple of squads, his last battle one unit pretty much won him the game, cutting a swathe through 2 large necron warrior squads and a wraith squad, however, counting the 3 prevous battles, twice I have cut them down usign mobile units without them achieving anything, the other time he used them as bait against dark angels, in escalation both squads were obvious targets for drop trop command squads, termie squads and assaulty squads, at the cost of the harleys, he got all the opponents "tooth" units into one small area and kicked the living hell out of them with mechanised beil tann, shining spears and DA in serpents took advantage of the consolidated units and wiped the floor with them
So swings and roundabouts
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Be interesting to see if they ever get around to the Great Harlequin and the Solitaire.
A couple other things since the OP asked what Harlies can do that scorps and Banshees can't.
Harlies can function well in a footslogging army. Scorps may infiltrate and therefore be on foot. But if you send them out on their own you're asking for trouble, so I think they're best used with units that can keep up. Banshees will simply be dead to something like heavy bolter fire. The also have the fast land movement. Banshees will trip in terrain and scorps don't fleet. Finally in the current incarnation Harlies are the only "take all comers" melee unit. As has been discussed there are really poor match ups for both scorps and banshees. Harlies can go after nearly everything in the game.
The other unique edge they have is that they're simply the biggest bang for the six seats in the back of a falcon if you want to go that route.
Finally a rules thing. Due to a stupid FAQ ruling you can't use fortune on a squad that starts inside a transport and if you have the seer in a transport he can't doom,fortune or guide the turn they get out.
However footslogging Harlies could be fortuned and guided just fine.