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Grey Knights? Sorry what?

2K views 23 replies 18 participants last post by  nakaruru 
#1 ·
Im sending a humble request to fellow Eldar players....
My regular opponent, a Dark Angels player, has recently gone mad and bought a whole bunch of Grey Knights (something like 3 squads with 3 LR's). Now, what he has foolishly done is bragged about them a tad, told me a bunch of stuff about weapons ignoring cover and invun. saves, mad psychic powers, crazy anti-psyker weapons and the sort, and I'm a tad worried...
I play pretty much ulthwe heavy, reliance on my farseers and warlocks with a few aspects and falcons/wraithlords, so any tips or guidance on what to expect and, more importantly, how to kill it.
many thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
I have some daemonhunters myself but all in all for all their special rules and weapons they can be killed just as easily as a regular space marine or terminator. However because of their special ruling it makes targeting them with range weapons a little difficult (They sort of have a constant night fighting ruling around them). So yeh...thats how easy they are to kill.

As for their special weapons, they don't have much to fear in terms of anti-tank, as the bulk of this comes from either a dreadnought or a landraider (There are other sources but you catch my drift). There are weapons that ignor invulnurable saves, these are really only deadly to your seers, they come in two flavours. A heavy bolter that can fire on the move (not too fearful as they cost an arm and a leg to purchase from the codex...so you wont see to many) and the more fearful one the incinerator, a heavy flamer template basically. However you do still get your noraml armour saves should they exceed the ap. Avoiding these weapons arn't too hard but you should look after your seer council, in this case I would gear your seers to using powers which do not require LoS...this includes Eldritch Storm, Doom...and the use of guide and fortune for nearby units is also very useable. Note that Grey Knights can dispell your psychic powers if it targets them, unless they have a psychic hood, psychic powers which target your own troops cannot be impeded. In addition to this, Grey knights also have their own psychic powers that can hurt...scourging for example also ignors invulnurable saves, so in this case you can use your own deterrant against them in the form of Runes of Warding. Very cheap and very annoying to Inquisitors.

The grey knights strength is in their ability to move an shoot 24"....thats some serious anti-infantry firepower so you may want to be careful in that respect. Their other strength is in their emense strength in close combat (str 6)...the justicar and terminators get this strength boost as well as ignor arnour saves.

So what do i recommend? Well despit their great strength in combat, shining spears will nueter them (unless their special ruling enables them to strike first. But close range shooting is another way to deal with them. With the speed of the eldar this should not be too much of a problem. The problem with daemon hunters is that any casulties they take is normally quite a fatal blow due to their high points cost.
 
#3 ·
one more thing to add:
i'm not sure on this one, but i think they have some minor protection from psychic powers.
plus they have a power called the aegis which makes it harder to shoot at them.
 
#5 ·
Warlock powers arn't minor....as such there arn't really any clarifications on such things, except in the previous chaos codex.

As for concentrating on objectives, it is advisable you do so but you can concentrate on killig also. Grey Knights can be outgunned and outfought due to their limited numbers, but they're no pushover is all so you've got to be careful in that respect.
 
#6 ·
He meant the protection is minor, not the powers.

Poor enough shots into them and they go down. Grey Knights are a very reactive army, so he will just try and counter whatever you do. They usually have trouble bringing down vehicles as they lack many anti tank options like other armies. Despite their s6 they can really be bogged down in close combat, and they will eventually use as you probably outnumber them 2 to 1.
 
#7 ·
He meant the protection is minor, not the powers.
But the protection itself is from minor psychic powers, isn't it?

And the protection from shooting, as I understand it, is actually "The Shrouding"... the Aegis is their armour, which grants the protection from minor psychic powers, if I have my thinking cap on straight.

The biggest thing to remember is that Grey Knights are no more survivable than normal Space Marines, yet cost nearly twice as much per model. They shouldn't be a huge problem.



 
#8 ·
I don't really playy eldar, but I have come up against grey knights alot. I think anything with rending or any sort of power weapon would come in handy, because they can be killed like a normal space marine. You could try instant death to, but you would probably end up only killing 1 or 2 each turn.
 
#12 ·
Thanks one and all for the input, much appreciated so far.
i admit, I'm now somewhat scared of these Grey Knights, apart from the price tag they dont seem to have a weakness. Hell, Im playing Eldar, so its not like I can swarm him....

I know the exact reason why he has got these GK's; he is sh*t scared of my uber Seer Council, they are constantly my best performing unit, and Gk's effectively cancel out everything good about them....

Any tactics then? Thanks again in advance ;Y
 
#13 ·
I am a Grey Knight player, and Eldar have some excellent anti Grey Knight tools.

If he is dumb enought to take Landraiders against Eldar, just make sure have Bightlances. Kill the Landraiders first, and you make him walk a limited number of troops. Troop wise, GKs will shoot the hell out of you, so don't get into a shooting war with all those Stormbolters. Keep it Mech, Falcons and Wave Serpents are excellent as Grey Knight Generals usually don't have a lot of anti-tank units.

Please don't listen to anything I have said. Go Knights!:happy:
 
#14 ·
You have little to fear from grey knights. They suffer from substantially low numbers, particularly if they're using land raiders.

GK look impressive on paper, but when it comes down to it they die just as easily as a much cheaper normal space marine. Psycannons and incinerators can make life difficult for your warlocks, but it's just a matter of using cover (against psycannons) and getting a good location to avoid getting incinerated. Optionally just get your seers into combat ASAP - unless your opponent opts to take a callidus, he has no combat methods to ignore your rune armour.

Bright lances (particularly useful vs land raiders), starcannons, fire prisms and even plain massed firepower will take them down faster than they can do the same to you.
 
#15 ·
if you want to kill grey knights take this core force:

5 Units of dire avengers
-2 shuriken cataplults, bladestorm
-Wave Serpent with Bright lances

then if you want to take a squad of shinning spear lead by an autarch on jetbike you can

Essentially, the brightlances pop the Land Raiders and then you own the board and Bladestorm him to death.

Also, DARK REAPERS!.
that is all.

-V
 
#16 ·
unfortunatly its the truth, they suffer from the high points cost. and most of thier rules are only good for killing daemons.

things to watch out for:
- grey knights tied with other armies
-power knight hvy list
-stormtrooper /elite hvy list

although horribly unbalanced they do perform well with other armies. space marines give them more tactical flexibility and wicth hunters gives them some nice alternate options (guard are good 2 but are usualy only taken for anti tank).

power kignt hvy lists are...... well different. they use numbers to thier advantage (wich spells doom for horde armies) to crush opponents under a tide of grey bodies. lethal at 1000point games but still potent at higher levels (disgusting in apocolypse), i've also see this army walk over eldar lists odly enough and can really punish mistakes if your fighting a competant player. they do have a weakness, there footsloggin and suffer againts tank lists since the only thing they'll have is meltabombs. best way to handle them is simply watch where hs termies are going (based of tactic fluff, they'll have the power armour dudes smash your army while the termies head for that players objective) and be aggressive. force him to react to you and it will be alot easier (also a complement of Ap3 guns help), and use banshees instead of other cc units (harlies dont like stormbolter death).

well if leans more to stormies then hes a bit more flexible, assasins and inquisitors can mess up your battle plan if ignored. this ones more rare since Gks with stormies are expensive to put together to make them effective (and most like simply stormies over their gk). the inquisitor with a psycannon is popular since he IS indipendant, so mind wars him before he becomes a pain (if its a lord theres no problem since he is easier to target)


lastly if u go council and farseer uber L33t squad stuff..... do kill the culexus that might be coming your way. hes a evil anti-psyker model that creams things like farseers, and he makes casting powers harder if he's near them to!
 
#17 · (Edited)
As a Grey Knights player as well as a possible Eldar secondary, I'm simply going to tell you what GK's have and are capable of.

They aren't gods, but they aren't easy to get rid of. If he's smart he'll keep you out of an assault bonus with Word of the Emperor (Ld. test on your assault to see if you can). With a 24" Assault 2 weapon we're not slack on raining in bullets, they are space marines after all. We also have the ability to requiess any other force in the imperium, though with SM no Grey Knights. Our only anti-vehicle is our own vehicles unless the HQ unit forgoes his Nemesis Force weapon for a chain fist (which I have had to do against a Dreadnaught).

Our biggest down side is our lacking numbers (A base Grey Knight costs is the most expensive troop choice in any codex). And the fact that the only unit with Multiple wounds are Grand Masters.


Hope that gives you a good insight as to what you're up against.
 
#18 ·
one really stupid question is taking 3 allied troops even legal?

i know the whitch hunters can only loan 1 hq, elite, fast attack and 2 troops

if it's 2 troops in land raiders thats legal but the 3rd would have to be fastattack which are forced to deepstrike so no land raider, the other option is it's a unit of termies in a landraider

in either scenario just outright laugh the dudes used up 1000-1500 points on 3 units and guarnteed you the number advantage by 3-1 at least, target the rest of his army with you psy powers and shuriken and take these guys out with a few volleys from a d'cannon battery or a prism
 
#19 ·
You can only take units from one army or another, and only the maximum allowed.

Personally if someone is mounting their GKs in a Land Raider they're losing a lot of power from their storm bolters. I also find that less per squad and more squads plays off better, that way when you get into an assault they can only focus on so many at a time. Teleport homers are a god send (at least for me because if I mishap I always seem to roll a 1 or 2) allowing a quick boost of support.

I recently did a rough 4,000 pt battle with two friends

Team 1
Deamonhunters 1010
Space Marines 993

Team 2
Tyranids 2003


1 HQ with 4 termy retinue
2 5 strong troop choices
2 5 strong Fast attack choices

It worked out very well, allowing me to kill two hive tyrants (one with tyrant guard) a lictor and a zoanthrope (and a guant squad but that doesn't count)

If it's victory point or annihilation, keep them at range the entire fight. Bring in a tank or two just for good measure. I would not recommend taking any Scorpions or close range fighters.

Swooping Hawks with Skyleap would be a wonderful boon to have if used constantly
Dark Reapers will put a huge dent into any normal GK squad
Dire Avengers would be a better option over guardians due to longer range and bladestorm
Fire dragons are sure to knock out a good few terminators if you can sneak them past storm bolter fire.
Warp Spiders would be better to tackle regular grey knights with their 12", fire, then 2D6" move, and at S 6 on those weapons you stand a good chance.

Keep Grey Knights at range unless you absolutely have to, storm bolters S 4 are weaker than S 6 close combat hits to eldar T 3 (Instant death is baaaaad >< ). Vehicles wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Hope that helps.
 
#20 ·
By the way which space marine chapter is it with the Land Raiders that are immune to lance effects? I thought it was grey knights.

Anyway I just wanted to give a shout out for runes of warding. If you have a seer on the board already they cost hardly anything and can seriously neuter psychers. At least the sort of psychers who have to take tests.
 
#21 ·
By the way which space marine chapter is it with the Land Raiders that are immune to lance effects? I thought it was grey knights.
It's BT who are immune to lances, it's an upgrade called Blessed Hull. Which along with las cannons, plasma weapons, and heavy 4 rending assault cannons apparently isn't good enough for the Grey Knights who are only equipped with the "best" the Imperium has to offer :p
 
#23 ·
It's BT who are immune to lances, it's an upgrade called Blessed Hull. Which along with las cannons, plasma weapons, and heavy 4 rending assault cannons apparently isn't good enough for the Grey Knights who are only equipped with the "best" the Imperium has to offer :p
The Grey Knights are. Not their vehicles. 'Sides, No Chaos weaponry has Lance weapons, so they wouldn't be outfitted for it. And their's is still beastly...LR has two twin-linked lascannons and a twinlinked storm bolter. LRC has a twin-linked assault cannon, multimelta, and TWO hurricane pattern bolters....I think it's stacked nicely lol
 
#24 ·
If you want to really annoy him put your council on bikes, now if he shoots you with something that would negate your inv save it will let you take the better bike armor save. Now he may take a hood which will make casting fortune a bit of a gamble and things can go bad, but the hood is something you should have faced before from other armies. The talk of tanks and either melee units or short range shooting units is very viable. Close quickly and drown them in shots and assault. Even after paying for the tanks you may well out number him, grey knights are really that expensive.
 
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