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I was reading through the new codex, and I noticed they get so much more shooting (which will now be reffered to as dakka) and that we could probly do a dakka army. In the codex it actuly mentions fieldning a dakka force, and even though GW can seem go grasp the concept of winning (come on no tacita or anything else they have wrote is much good) , I think that it might have some fight in it. An example of this would 45 tank bustas ! That means I can kill 10 marines a turn with that alone (statisticaly, assuming no cover) not to mention that I have enough shots I could mess up a bane blade (although thats a bit of a stretch) Or lootas, or just plain shoota boys. All of these units are realy shooty, and for the mos part cheap. Granted Bs 2 messes with us, we do have some of the best guns in the game (assault rokkits ) And the ever feared combat phase most shooty armys run from like grim death (which it usualy is) dosnt hurt to terrbly. Against tau or guard we wont win in the shooting game, but so what ? While we shoot at them with our assualt weapons we can also run forward into assualt where they cant win.
As far as I'm concerned, I think we both lost and won a good deal of dakka. The main difference is that our dakka is longer ranged now.
- weapons in squads. Before, I fielded a 12-strong shoota boy unit with 4 big shootas
- looted vehicles (Russ, basilisk), replaced by the wafer-thin armor looted wagon
- zzap gunz extra d6 for armour pen.
- +1 armor pen. for tankbustas
- range 24' on shootas
- lootas: the best of the bunch, absolutely outstanding
- shokk attak gun. Kinda replaces nmy looted russ's gun
- tankbustas. I say: meh, as I really don't like their glory hog rule
- bs 3 grotz, which makes kannons and kans great shooting platforms
- many more opportunities to pump shoota fire
Basically, my shoota nob has been moved from long range support into close-range assault support, and I've dropped my zzaps and replaced them by lootas and kannons (and by hope when it comes to skimmers.....).
"Politics is the womb in which war develops"
Yes all the stuff your saying is right but I do think that most of it is a double edged blade type thing. The fact we can only field half the weapons we used to be able to in small squads sucks, but How bad it it to take a bit squad, or buggys if you just want more guns. We lost vehicles but now our battle wagons have ordinance which makes up for that we can still field a leman russ basicly, 2 less str. As long as were not shooting at big stuff we still wound on 2's and have ap 3. Zzzzap guns got ruined especialy considering how we need to roll to hit, but we still have the lobba which is decent for tanks (or mabey its the cannon can't rember) Tank bustas lost their stregth bonus BUT now we can field 5 times as maney rokkits, as well as a free mech, with kustom mega blasta (another gun that got hurt badle but now we can field alot more of them) And I think being assualt 2 makes up for the range. Keep in mind while we cant fire at 24 inches we get 2 shots at 18, which is the same ammount of shots realy, and now we can charge after we shoot.
And those were the disadvantages. The only thing we realy cant do now is anti tank. But 15 rokkit's is going to get at least a shaken result against even a land raider. Now shoot 45 at it.....
Realy I do think we got alot better, lootas are so good now (30 str 7 shots from 10 guys, yes please !) Also one thing we tend to over look is tracks and buggies. They are quite annoying, and they still only cost 30 something points. Which is a steal considering thats 2 marines or 5 guardsmen. And given the fact you can take 9 of them, they get realy good.
Not enough, Dakka is like Cow bell, you always need more.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
I'm going to have to agree.. the pendulum has swung to far in the other direction. It's fun to shoot with the boyz but lets face it that's just not what they're about. Before the shooting round was about rolling some dice to keep your self amused you closed in. Some times it was spectacular.. most times it was just laughable. Now it seems I am suposta play my boyz like marines
Last edited by Stoot; January 12th, 2008 at 06:24.
It's been said before but 2nd Ed Orks were in fact quite shooty. 3rd ed decided to make them close combat oriented, and now 4th ed is now a crossbreed where you take the stats of 3rd ed orks and give them access to about the shooting of 2nd ed. I personally think it's neat that I can have hundreds of shots a turn, knowing that in theory it's balanced out by my terrible ballistic skill.
True, ork BS is still terrible. And even with thier all of thier shots, they are still mainly a close combat oriented army. With the trukks, assult weapons, and cheaper cost of boyz, it makes for mobs of orks that can rip apart MEQ's in combat very easily, even with shoota boyz replacing the slugga boyz.
If you take fewer troops and more elites and heavy weapons units, they yes, you will have a shooty ork army. But if you take lots of troops and cheaper units, you will do better in close combat. It all depends on the army style you choose and how you play it.
The bit I havnt mentioned about this is taht in the old codex I was 0ut shooting every one, tu and guard included. The battle wagons are great for that. I was just wondering If thats still possible, or more possible now.
uhhhh, I don't know what kind of IG or tau you were facing, but in general circumstances, there was NO way orks could outshoot them.The bit I havnt mentioned about this is taht in the old codex I was 0ut shooting every one, tu and guard included. The battle wagons are great for that. I was just wondering If thats still possible, or more possible now.
There still isn't (see my previous post).
Having played a few games with the new codex, I now enjoy a redoubtable psychological advantage: my opponents are scare to death of my shooting, simply because of the insane number of shots fired each turn, even though few of them wound eventually.
Let's see, in the army I tried last week-end):
8 lootas (avg 16 shots)
8 lootas (avg 16 shots)
MEk with SAG
20 shootas boyz+ BS (if in range 40 shots)
2 BS from trukks (6 shots)
6 BS from killa kans (18 shots)
4 RL from boyz (4 shots)
That's 101 shots a turn!!!!! Obviosuyl, few will hit, but just grabbing this amount of dice will make even marines cower behind buildings, while the boyz close the gap.
Remember, unless you dedicate your army solely to shooting, which is still tantamount to suicide for ork armies, shooting is here to pin down your opponent while your main army (trukks, boy units, kans...) move in for the kill.
"Politics is the womb in which war develops"
Well I didnt realy shoot "right" firstly I used a kult of speed. I set up a wall of 2 battle wagons and a leman russ, and shot with that, while I used buggies to block my side armour (as well as terrain) with a mech with Kustom force field, and armour plates (ahhh the good old days of vehivle armour saves.....) I won through sheer durability, as well as making most of his army usless because of its strenghth, I will Admit that beating the tau was a lot of luck (3 of those armour plate saves made in a single turn !) But I targeted anti tank units above all else, and once he had none left the game was basicly done.