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Hey guys! I decided to start TT after I played Dark Crusade and after some deliberation ( Checked out tyranids, Marines, Necrons all extensively) I decided to go Ork. Now I made this list with the help of a friend.
- Pk, 'eavy armor, Bosspole, Shoota/Scorcha. [100 pts]
Slugga Boyz x 20 (Lead by BOSS)
- 2 Rokkits [140pts]
Shoota Boyz x 20
- Nob (included)
w/ Big Choppa, 'eavy armor, Bosspole [155 pts]
- 2 x Big Shootaz
Lootas x 7
Now I have gotten past the OMG must Swarm Enemy MUAHAHA mentality and have considered erm.. diversifying my units.
I Like to lean towards more boyz but the thing is, my bro who is also starting chose Eldar and has alot of Jetbikes. I am concerned about my boyz not being able to reach combat against such fast things.
The Point: I am considering using Kommandos or Bikers to complement my boyz. Which unit would better be used to complement a team geared towards boyz? I dont quite understand how to use the kommandos or warbikers in battle ( tactic wise, I have codex Ork)
All replies are appreciated! 8X
First of all, you should take 25-30 slugga or shoota boyz in a mob, not 20. It isn't that much more, point wise, and infinitely more annoying to enemies. Also, I feel that shoota boyz work better in the 30 man mobs, and slugga boys work better in trukks.
Yes, you need trukks. Large groups of orks can work very well, but against armies geared more towards shooting, or moving around quickly, you'll need trukks to move your guys around the battle field. Large groups of troops, running towards the enemy, known as 'footsloggers' by 40k, are also effective in many situations, but you need trukks to get smaller groups of orks over to the enemy quickly.
Look at it this way: the turn starts with your orks loaded in a trukk that has the 'red paint job' upgrade. The trukk can move 13in and still unload its passengers. You unload the orks to the front of the vehicle, up to 2in away (which technically gets you another 2in closer), and then you can assault 6in into close combat. This way you can move 21in into combat in a single turn, which is incredible. Also, once per game you can 'WAUGGGGGHHHH' and get another d6 inches of movement, instead of shooting (the full details are in the book). This is a possible 27in of movement in a single turn. If your guys were walking, that could take most of the game, and if your opponent keeps backing up, they may not make it at all.
The problem with only using trukks is that they can't take many casualties before dying. 30 orks, especially when backed up by a warboss and nob, can last forever.
Also, no matter what type of troops you're using, always include a nob with a power klaw. It may seem like a hassle, but when you wind up in close combat with walkers and monstrous creatures, your regular boyz aren't going to be able to hurt them. A power klaw doubles the strength of your nob from 4 to 8, and if you charged, it increased it to 9. Just keep in mind that they always strike last in combat, but with one of those in every unit, you'll be able to kill anything your opponent throws at you. There's some arguments going on as to whether or not the nob of a shoota boy squad can take a power klaw or not, but all evidence I've seen so far says they can (for instance, the sample army in White Dwarf magazine had a shoota boy mob with a power klaw in it).
No matter what, you always want your troops to assault the enemy, not the other way around. Orks usually win though volume of attacks, not quality of strikes. By being the side that starts the fight, each ork gets +1 attack, +1 strength and +1 initiative for the first round. This is often the difference between victory and defeat. A favorite strategy of mine is to keep a trukk full of boys hidden behind terrain, back towards my side of the board, so that if one of my teams gets attacked first, my hidden team can race over and join the fight next round, attacking first.
The other units in your army should be there to help shoot down the enemy, destroy tanks, and kill the annoying distant targets that give your troops trouble. I'm not too fond of Kommandos myself. They can help, but only in certain situations. Frankly, there are many other units that will help better.
Warbuggies are invaluable. They're really cheap, point wise, and if you give them rokkits (which you should), they can take down vehicles 4x their cost, by sneaking around and shooting at their backs and sides. They're very vulnerable, however, and will most likely die, so you should only field them in teams of one, so that if they're shot at, the most your opponent can kill is the one.
Bikes are very versatile, as they're good in both shooting and close combat. They can be a bit tricky to get used to playing, but they can shoot an incredible number of times, and are very difficult to kill. You just have to be sure to keep them hidden behind terrain, so they aren't shot. Also, they can be rather expensive, point wise, and their tendency to get shot means you probably shouldn't field less than 6 at a time (and 9 is definitely better). This will run you 225-260 points though, so I only use them in army lists of 1500 points or more.
Lootas are very good at shooting, burnas are great at killing infantry, and tankbustas are very good at fighting tanks, but you have to keep in mind that they are all vulnerable, and have to be used carefully.
Looted wagons and Battle wagons can transport those units safely, shoot up the battlefield a bit, and provide cover for the units behind it, although looted wagons are a bit vulnerable (for vehicles) and battle wagons are very expensive. On the other hand, battlewagons are as tough as imperial tanks, and looted wagons only cost slightly more than the buggies.
As for HQ's, I wouldn't use the warboss. Even though they're tough, they're slow and not that much more effective than a nob. Mega armor will make him more tough, but even more slow. Remember, you can't kill what you can't catch.
A warboss on a bike is nice, as he can join a bike mob, or run around on his own as an independent character. Just like with the other nobs, he works best with a power klaw.
The big mek with the shokk attack gun is powerful, although a bit unpredictable. He fires huge blasts, like a tank, but it might backfire and hurt your own side.
Mad Doc Grotznik is great for attaching to a 30 man team, but again, he can be a bit unpredictable, as he and his team ALWAYS moves towards, and assaults, the nearest enemy, regardless of whether you wanted to or not.
Ghazghkull is great for many reasons, but he costs a lot of points. He's probably worth it though.
In any case, you should explore your options, but if you're starting, I'd avoid using kommandos, stormboys, or mega armor. Those are specialty units, mainly used to replace normal troops.
For the elite, fast and heavy choices, you should take units that are good at shooting, and that can deal with the faster, more distant enemies.
Here's what I'd take for a starting 500 point army:
Big Mek with Shokk attack gun (95)
29 shoota boyz w/2 rokkit launchas and nob w/pk (229)
Trukk w/11 slugga boyz and nob w/pk (141)
Warbuggy w/twin linked rokkit launchas (35)
Strategy: hurl everything you have at them. Keep the big mek by himself, hitting the enemy's vehicles and distant units. Charge the shoota boyz forward, and move the trukk forward, but not somewhere vulnerable. Have the warbuggy race up, distract your opponent, and try to take out the enemy's most vulnerable vehicles/targets. During the second turn, race the trukk forward and get into close combat, using the WAUGGGHHHH if you have to. Continue moving the shootas up, firing at anything that stands up to you.By now the warbuggy is most likely dead, but that's okay. Your slugga boyz have won combat (unless something went horribly wrong), and the shoota boyz are charging forward to mop up whatever the shokk attack gun left behind.
A 1000 point version of the list would look like this:
Big Mek with Shokk attack gun (95)
25 shoota boyz w/2 rokkit launchas and nob w/pk (205)
25 shoota boyz w/2 rokkit launchas and nob w/pk (205)
Trukk (red) w/11 slugga boyz and nob w/pk (146)
Trukk (red) w/11 slugga boyz and nob w/pk (146)
Warbuggy w/twin rokkit launcha (35)
Warbuggy w/twin rokkit launcha (35)
5 Tankbustas (75)
Looted wagon with hard case and two big shootas (55)
I'd start with the game with the tankbustas moving inside the looted wagon (but they shouldn't start the game inside it, that's too risky), and then having the wagon charge forward, to both provide cover and intimidate the enemy. Besides that, the strategy is basically the same, and I've found works well.
Of course there's a lot of strategies out there, so find what works best for you.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; January 22nd, 2008 at 03:53. Reason: spelling error
Wow thanks alot for the advice man! I really appreciate it! But I was considering putting in bikers in here instead of lootas or warbuggies because I really hate shooting and bikers will get in to cc soon with their darn bikes or harass them until my boyz get on the scene so how would I modify my list to include bikers? Should I change the boyz to include trukk boyz? or Is it viable to footslogg the way up? Should my boss be on a bike or foot?
I took what you guys said and came up with this:
4 Warbikers ( 1 Nob with Claw) = 135
Truck with Warboss ( eavy armor + claw) and 11 boyz = 201
24 boyz with 2 rokkits = 164
The idea would be to rush the trukk at the enemy's ground troops while the biker witht he claw charge at their precious jetbiks or vehicles. Now at this point the enemy would have to confront either losing vehicles, troops, or splitting fire up and possibly being innnefective. All the while my boyz would slog up there and provide the final massed blow to their army. What do you guys think? Shoul d those 24 boyz be shoota boyz? should they keep their rokkets or get big shootas?
Last edited by Antikaratekid; January 22nd, 2008 at 15:53.
I played my first game this weekend with a 400 point list that was very similar to your new one. I had 3 bikers (nob with a klaw), 12 boys (nob with a klaw) in a truckk, and 10 kommandos with 2 rokkits.
The bikers were very effective (assaulting and killing a Dreadnought and cleaning up the remnants of a tactical squad) but ended up being shot down and then fleeing into an enemy unit. I had kept them in cover all game, but when they killed the Tac squad they got caught in the open. As I increase the points they are going to receive a few more men to make them more survivable to a round of shooting.
The boys in the Trukk require more finesse than I had originally thought. They don't have huge numbers, and their 6+ save won't protect them from much. You need to make sure they hide behind cover and try to commit them only when you're sure they can make it into assault. A sneaky trick I learned is once they've left the Trukk, you can use it to block LOS to the boys in the next turn. I'm sure this is pretty standard tactics, but I've never used transports before and it was new to me.
The Kommandos were very useful for me (and your Rokkit boys will probably accomplish the same thing). Their rokkits wound marines on a 2+ and will deny almost everything it's save, so if you can get good rolls to hit they will put some hurt on people. Just be careful assaulting something if you don't have a klaw in the squad; Orks have a ton of attacks, but those klaw attacks are very helpful.
Footslogging is only viable with large mobs of boys, and as I mentioned before, I don't think the warboss is that much more effective than a nob with a power klaw, which is a lot cheaper in points. I'd put the warboss on a bike, and either have him ride around alone (just make sure he isn't the closest unit to the enemy, or they can shoot him), or in an entourage of warbikes.
You need a fifth bike in there, so they can take one casualty without having to make a leadership save. The nob is good, and he should have a bosspole, to give a reroll on the leadership save (they have to inflict a wound on their own team to get it, but since they have good saves, it shouldn't be a problem).
Honestly, I don't know if there's room in a 500 point army for warbikes. They're just too expensive. I usually don't play 500 point games anyway. Most people start at 1000. Still, here's a try:
Warboss w/bike, pk, cybork, bosspole (135)
11 slugga boyz in trukk and nob w/pk (141)
17 shoota boyz w/2 rokkit launchas (122)
4 warbikes (100)
Yes, I only included 4 warbikes, but that's because I'd have the warboss on the bike attached to the warbike unit at the start. Run the trukk of boyz towards the nearest target, but don't leave them out in the open, and the same goes for the bikes. Hide behind terrain and out of line of sight, and then get into close combat by turn two. While this is happening, march your shoota boyz up, and have them go for towards the most dangerous targets.
Of course, you could do this:
Warboss w/powerklaw, bike, bosspole (120)
10 slugga boyz in trukk + 1 nob w/pk (135)
10 grotts w/runtherd (40)
8 warbikes (200)
As you may have guessed, the grotts are only there to fill the troop requirement. Charge them forward, watch them die, and have a good time. Start the warboss attached to the bike mob, and out of sight initially, in case your opponent goes first. Then, just race them up 24in, out of sight, while your trukk is rushing forward. By turn 2, the fun starts. It's more risky than the first list, but a lot of fun.
What weaknesses do you think the first list you suggested has? Stuff I should watch out for?
Kommandos have rockets? Are you sure you're not thinking of tankbustas? I may have missed something, but I didn't think kommandos had rockets.
If they're unwise, and stick their guys up front, by all means, charge the hell out of them. If they're wise, they'll wait for you to stick your head out, and then fire their big guns. Hiding the bikes and trukk until they can charge into close combat shouldn't be too hard, but don't rush things. Make sure you can make it, using the WAUUUUGGGHHH (pronounced 'wog') when it matters most.
One lesson I learned the hard way is not to be timid with the mobs of boyz that aren't in trukks. Rush them forward, and let the enemy shoot them. That means they won't be shooting at your bikes or trukk.
By now I've already stressed how important it is to be the one that assaults your opponent, but the trick to winning battles is mastering the counter-assault.
For example, last weekend I fought a marine player in a 2000 point game. He managed to shoot up a mob of slugga boyz (their trukk got destroyed), and then assaulted them. When it got back to my turn, I rushed up a mob of boyz, and assaulted them back. They quickly fell, but not before a dreadnaught assaulted the mob of boyz, and killed the boss attached to them (mad doc grotznik, to be specific), leaving the boyz almost no way to kill the dread. In response, I managed to sneak up a small team of tankbustas, which assaulted the dread and blew it to pieces. My boyz won the battle, and while my opponent was distracted with all this, another trukk and buggy snuck their way over into his side of the board, and wiped out another tactical team. At this point, he gave up.
Don't throw everything into one giant close combat at once. Assault with just enough to win the battle, have another unit ready to counter-assault if necessary, and have the rest sneak around to look for more targets. If your opponent throws more troops into the battle, to turn the tide, run the backup unit in and wipe them out.
With that army, I'd lead with the trukk, while my shootas continued their steady pace over to the other side of the board. If your opponent counter-assaults, or moves something up to shoot the boyz, move in your bikes to wipe out the enemy, either by shooting, assaulting, or preferably, both. If your enemy rushes your shoota boyz, I'd let the trukk back them up, while the bikes sneak up on the rest of their forces.
The secret to beating other close combat armies is counter-assault, and no one does that better than the orks.
Oh, so they can be upgrades to have rockets. Still, I'd prefer to use warbuggies with twin linked rockets, race them around the edge of the board, and attack from there.
As far as units of troops go, kommandos seem vulnerable if they're not locking in close combat. It seems too easy to shoot them right off the board. As long as they're in close combat, they can't be shot. This works, but then they can't really take out armor. You can give them a power klaw, but then you can't have the special character with them, and you won't be able to come off your opponent's edge of the board. You'll still be able to infiltrate, but two rocket shots doesn't seem like much power, considering the point cost, and their low BS.
That's just as far as I can tell, since I've never used them. Have other people had different results?