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I am curious what people think when they are playing with their Dark Eldar against all the other Armies of the 40K universe.
Is it me or do we have what could be considered the most fragile and tactically unforgiving army that there is?
One day when discussing this with a fellow gamer he argued that they were one of the easier armies to use and that Tyranids were the hardest. Personally I can't see how that is the case when you have hard creatures like fexes as a choice...
So I was wondering if other people feel as though they are one of the hardest to use. I love it personally as it generally means you always have to be on your game or be prepared to lose.
Anyway curious what people think.
Everybody says that the DE are weak but the analogy for them that I like best is the glass hammer. I like them because they either break a force in a single turn or are broken themselves.
They are kind of like that card game, ralph, or scumbag depending on where you are from, where 2 is the high card and you play rounds to get rid of your hand. If you are good, you win by starting a flow of unplayable combinations. I think DE play the same way. They are virtually assured of first strike and you'll probably know by turn 2 if you can win or not.
I live how you can look at it the way of a card game. It is true. I have always loved the idea of a glass sledgehammer which really is what they are. Have always told my opponents if you want to beat me all you have to do is break me. And yet they have so many problems doing it. lol
everyone at my GW fears DE, because 1. they're so rare, most people just ignore them and 2. people with DE know how to use them.
and Nids are the hardest to use, basically everything can be customized and you've got to find the right "niche" in that army to do it, while DE on the other hand is, what am I kidding, from what I've heard, it's also hard to master.
Create flames for a galaxy and it will be warm. Put a galaxy in flames and it will be warm for the rest of it's existence.
Playing DE is no different from playing a video game on the hardest difficulty. Its a long, slow and hard process but at the same time its the most fun. Yes they are fragile, but relying on heavily armored troops with big guns all the time isnt all that exciting if you ask me.
Dark eldar definitely fall into the challenging category, where people play them only after the mastered every or at least most other armies. Those that start with DE are obviously jumping into the fast lane, but from that point on, every subsequent force they play after DE will be a lot easier to field and of course will be a step down the ladder of difficulty.
yes i agree with everyones point here. i started playing 40k using DE. now i've played a little bit of almost everything i play boring old space marines that do extremely well and i still play my DE. it is definitely nice to play DE because of the caution you have to use but it's always nice to play the space marines where i can afford to make that one mistake and live to tell the tale. i would say that yes DE are the hardest army to play followed by non-crisis suit tau.
Dark Eldar 42/3/10
Space Marines 26/0/1
Dark Eldar 5/0/1
Well, I started out with DE. It was the 3rd edition, everyone else was doing Marines and managed to find myself in the middle of a lot of free warriors from the starter set. It's taken me... a while to understand them after circulating through Tyranids and SoB on top of a 4 yeat Hiatus of the hobby.
I was losing fairly miserabley with them each game when I started and indeed when I went back to them something like a year ago after my flirtation with the new(er) Tyranids (and realising no matter if I win or not; they're the damn coolest army out there. It's such a shame there's so little fluff) but recently... somethin's just clicked andI think I've gotten into how they work. I can keep my skimmers alive by exposing them only to units that I know I can cripple with their shooting, or when I can block LOS to by creating combats in the next phases. I know what units my Lord can and can't take and I've mastered the extremely annoying art of throwing a sacraficial unit of wyches at someone's uber close combat unit of death and destroying the rest of the army whilst they bog it down; ensuring it circled by firepower when the wyches eventually die and then lesuirely blasted to Narnia. The last 10 games with my current list have been won by massacre so... the 6th month losing streak turned out be be quite a learning curve.
The word "Fragile" to describe DE is not perhaps the right one to use in my opinion.
For me it was more like "hard to get to know," especially in the rules department and quizzically hard for my opponents to accept their rules also.
Just ask yourself how many times have you had to explain the portal rules to your friends only to find out that you have been using it wrongly yourself all that time! Which combat drugs to use, do I have to tell whats in which Raider and yes, my Reavers do indeed get a 6" asault move just like Eldar bikes. The list goes on and it seems to be a never ending battle for both you and your foe just to really understand them.
Then you have to tear your mind away from MEQ thinking that is so prevalent in GW stores and try and befriend a good Eldar player to under what "aspects" are and do so that you can relate this back to your own very specialised troops.
The art of "Sacrifice" for the greater good (and no I don't mean Tau) is just so different to any other race out there - and I don't just refer here to ablative armour used in larger squads.
The use of Raiders that you "want" turned into wrecks, using Wyches not to beat your opponent but to tie them up as long as possible and the use of "Ghost" Raiders that dare the enemy to "Go ahead, shoot them all - if you can!" and the Talos as a road block against swarms when they threaten to break through.
Grotesques that thumb their noses at most incoming fire look like such an easy target at first glance and the Talos that is so tough, these look like juicy free targets because they are in such a lightly armoured army but turn out to have a surprise immunity to most damage.
In many ways DE are illogical and it does take time to "bend your brain" around their rules and tactics, and in many of my earlier games I actually robbed myself of chances due to not knowing some of the more esoteric abilities available to them.
So I don't think of Dark Eldar as "Fragile" as such but more likely rules and tactics intensive and my mind races the entire time I play with them, unlike when I use my sons Marines that are much more a "set and forget" type of army.
This constant micro management in your brain just does not suit some players no matter how much they want it to be so and many will site things like "Well I don't want to play Dark Eldar because they are - too ugly, too fragile, have poor rules, unavailable in my area and so on."
But without judging them I think that it all gets down to "do you want to play with that Codex or not?"
Last edited by Wicky; March 2nd, 2008 at 08:37.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
Wickywacky I just love the way that you describe playing with dark eldar. In my area there are no veteran players except myself and there are few newbs just really starting. Who are struggling along.
Whenever I play them I almost give myself a headache trying to work out what strategies I should be employing and then its all about trying to give them a good show because I have always found them the unloved army in 40k.
A lot of my regular opponents these days fear my Dark Eldar but it took me so long to figure out a way to play them sucsessfully. It was so frustrating in those early years... and some of those rules in particlar webways can be annoying.
THe one I have the greatest difficulty explaining is wych weapons as they get rid of bonuses for 2 close combat weapons and yes that includes scything talons on your genestealers!
There's a relatively high number of DE player in my area, about one in every 75 or so.
They each run completely different lists, one does not use raiders, one has a haemonculi coven, one uses a pure wytche cult and no warriers, etc, the list goes on. That's making it uniquely difficult to ask others on strategies and the like, because everyone here plays their army completely different from one another, and no two can agree on any one particular bit of strategy. It's frustrating, but really cool to watch two of them face off.