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I am new to playing eldar. I have played space marines for a while. I am the type of commander that believes in putting faith into your troop choices. I see that the cheaper choice of the eldar troops is their gaurdians. The problem is that their short range weapons are very limiting. My question is, In what capacity are guardians even worth putting on the field of battle?
When they're on jetbikes?
.....I kid,I kid. Seriously though, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of reason to use guardians when Dire Avengers are just so much better at doing the same job. Really,the only thing that guardians have going for them is that they're cheap. This means that you could use them as a sort of shield for better units, but it's incredibly un-Eldar to sacrifice your civilians so that your soldiers can kill things better.
.......just take jetbikes.
I still run Guardians and to decent success, yes Avengers have the advantage when it comes to hairing around in Wave Serpents or dispatching shurikeny justice, but the humble guardian still has a role to play mostly due to 2 factors, Warlocks and Heavy Weapons.
They are not your spear point for heading agressive attacks into the enemy board edge, they are the shield for your heavy weapons, able to contribute to the ranged fire while providing a solid burst of short range anti-infantry fire when the enemy closes.
Their utility is the key, Avengers have no weapons for dealing with anything over AV10, they are powerless in the face of it, walkers can hold them in combat indefinatly, they are aggressive light infantry killers.
The humble guardian squad can engage a multitude of foes at a multitude of ranges, anti-tank is no problem be they at range or melee with heavy and a warlock.
An emboldened Guardian squad will hold the line much better than Dire Avengers and with a heavy weapon reach out to kill your foe from further away. The clue is in their name, Defenders.
It can't be denied that the Avengers have gained a lot of ground with the latest codex, and in the case of the ever present Mech Eldar lists even surpassed them (that said don't ignore Storm squads with flamers) but for defensives and holding objectives I'll put trust in the citizen militia of Ulthwe every time.
Last edited by Emerald Cat; March 6th, 2008 at 08:42.
I agree with the fact that Dire Avengers can be so much better in most situations, but Emerald Cat has it right with the vehicle problem. I use 2x 15-man squads of Guardian Defenders with a Warlock with Enhance to either hold objectives or to back up the Dire Avengers. They are very handy in many respects.
I like my women how I like my coffee! In a plastic cup! - Eddie Izzard
oh good, some sense, I have had to beat it into my kids that if you want to use an army really well you need to get to grips with the troops, not go for toys for the boys syndrome and overspend in elites, HQ, FA or HS.
To understand why the eldar troop choics are what they are, one must understand the fact that codex eldar is covering a broad array of army types in the form of craftworlds.
The standard warrior of the eldar is the Dire Avenger.
Wraithguard - the dead - their use is abhorant to the eldar but being a dieing race is a desperate but necessary evil, notably for Iyanden craftworld, which was all but wiped out by hive fleet kraken and thus can not field an army of sufficient size for its military needs
Guardians (on foot) are not warriors, they are the populace conscripted or militia, without regular military training, the only exception to this are the black guardians of Ulthwe, who do undergoe military training as part of their normal life (hence the old rules for black guardians in the last eldar codex and the appocalypse Ulthwe strike force asset)
Bikes- as per guardians, they are troops really so one can play Siam Hann, whose wild riders ARE regularly undergoing a form of military training.
Therefore with the new codex, Guardians really are not that good,they can provide fire support by giving them a weapons platform and some clever tricks can be done with storm guardians, it is possible to go all "Ulthwe" and guardian out your army, but it takes a good deal of skill and some clever thought with other units to complement them, on the whole, unless you want toplay a fluffy craftworld, for effect, one should stick to DA until one gets a better feel for armies
Everything you have been told is a lie!
But, sometimes, a swarm comes in handy. A 20-man unit is very resilient, even at T3 and 5+. Put in a Warlock with conceal and you don't have to search for woods.
And with 38 S4 shots, no one wants to get close, so you can have support that is safe from over-eager deep striking.
my last few lists have had a squad of guardians with a scatterlaser for 95 points. They sit in the back, deployed in cover with a nice open firing lane and just pump 4 shots across the board until something gets close enough for me to open fire with their catapults. it's a decent amount of extra support for the front line units.
A guy in our group runs a couple of twelve man guardian squads with missle launchers (sometimes uses 2 starcannons or 2 scatter lasers)
They work quite well for him. The moveable heavy weapon platform is really nice. That and the regular shots they can law down aren't bad either. I'll never sneeze at assault 2 guns with bolter stats.
They seem easy to work into his list with the point cost per model. I can (and have) really seen their use.
i use a squad of 10 guardians, with bright lance, a warlock/or spiritseer with conceal. about 150 points, i only use one unit and they're just perform very well, i've never been unhappy with them at all.
they support my 2 wraithlords and are always with 12" of the avatar.
they are either ignored in battle or targetted in attempt to kill the warlock/or spiritseer.
the bright lance means they're going to hit something half the time, usually a tank, a landraider, its all the same.
1. essential for supporting the wraithlords/wraithguard.
2. good cannon fodder.
3. make up numbers
4. good for holding table quaters
5. good anit-tank with bright lance can fire everyturn as usually ignored
6. if warlock has conceal can be surprisingly resilient
although they have short range weapons, bad armour save, bad in close combat etc:z
still seems that the only use for them is cannon fodder which is disconcerting. Troop selections should not be so easily over looked and under used.