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I am currently considering starting a Nidzilla list (I previously played Tau) since I have always loved the idea of a phalanx of heavily armed and armored units and unfourtunatly the IG AC is no longer really a option (since it is no longer allowed in GT and my local store uses those rules for its RTT). The nidzilla list looks like the next best thing (or possibly even better, looking at those suckers they are crazily survivable).
However, one thing that concerns me is how they would operate in Apocalypse games where you will face superheavies against which it does not seem that a VC would do much (since it suffers a -2 on the damage table since it can only glance). Other than throwing in a large swarm of genestealers (or similar rending creatures) I was thinking of throwing in a Barbed Heirodule (probably entering through Deepstrike thanks to the Mycetic Assault Swarm formation) since it can throw out a fair number of S10 shots that can penetrate (although it costs a hefty 700pts).
Does this seem like a viable option, or is relying on one creature going to take out superheavies unwise (even though it is pretty resilient, T8 & 6 wounds)?
You should definitely field the Heirodule in Apoc games if you have one. Nasty. As far as balancing the VC against super-heavies, just remember that Apoc allows for all those nice assets like Flank March, which can get your Carnifexes behind those pesky Baneblades and such.
Edit: And welcome to LO!
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
Vesper'O/Hive Commander Vesper
I first wanted to point out that I've played in less than 10 Apocalypse games. So please remember this as I comment below.
A Nidzilla list is usually pretty competitive whether or not you play normal games or Apocalypse games. And I'm sure most Hive Commanders here would argue that the Carnifex is one of the most fun units to build. If you decide to field this there are some concerns you should consider:
1) As you already pointed out, the Venom Cannon isn't nearly as devastating when hitting any superheavy vehicles. If you know your opponent is going to have at least one Superheavy, then you MUST field a superheavy unit yourself. The Hierodule is probably one of your better options (if you're considering price of the model, unit cost, and battlefield effectiveness).
2) The Trygon, although considered a Gargantuan creature, is not the best unit to field. I purchased the Imperial Armour Apocalypse book in December 2007. It has better shooting stats, but it lost its structure point and slightly more expensive. It does have high toughness and strength, but it has a MEQ save, so lascannon/melta/plasma shots can take this unit down.
3) Remember that any unit that is hit by a weapon with strength D and is NOT within Synapse range is automatically removed. So using the Mycetic Assault swarm looks great on paper (since you can field a cheap Ninjafex). However, once you get hit with a STR D weapon, and assuming its out of Synapse range, that cheap Ninjafex and expensive CC Carnifex are dead. I found that out the hard way in several games.
4) If you play against Necrons, watch out for one that plays with 3 Monoliths and uses the Nightshroud. If there are 2 Monoliths, it disables psychic powers that go through a line between 2 monoliths. If there are 3 Monoliths, it creates a triangular zone that disables all psychic powers. So imagine units stuck in this zone then getting hit with a STR D weapon. I consider any Necron player that fields three Monoliths the equivalent of playing with a Superheavy because of the devastating power of the Nightshroud.
5) Additional assets don't mean much if they can't take out those superheavies. So don't be fooled if someone allows you to take an additional Strategic Asset to "level the playing field"
In closing Nidzilla lists can be fun to play. But for Apocalypse games, I follow the general rule: For every superheavy your opponent may field, you should have a Gargantuan Creature. In contrast, if your opponent is just fielding 3000+ of standard units, you should be fine.
Rudy Wilfred Picardo
Current Record (W/L/D) 143/112/60
Recent Battle - 1500 pt draw vs. IG player (mission: Seek And Destroy)
Thanks for the responses.
So far from the battles I have seen most of the armies have at least one superheavy but only two of the 10 or so armies fielded have a model that can field a Destroyer weapon (a Big Mek Stompa & a Warhound Titan) and only one of those (the Warhound) is a reliable destroyer weapon. With the exception of the Warhound guy (who brought the Warhound, a Baneblade, and a Brass Scorpion in the last game I saw) and one of the IG players who is doing a full AC (with 2 Baneblades) all of them have one or less superheavy and unless things go horribly, horribly wrong the second element should be able to at least stun the lone superheavy (I am confident that the volume of high strength shots in to rear/side amour would bring down a lone superheavy). Another plus to consider is that if he about faces with a superheavy to shoot them DS formation then he is exposing the rear/side armour of said vehicle which the static group would have a fair chance to penetrate.
As to the Nightshroud, I had not thought of that (I do not believe any Necron players are participating in the apoc games as of yet), but yeah, looking at what that thing does, it would be nasty. 3+ WBB, not to mention the firepower of 3 Monoliths.
I have put up a preliminary list in the armylist section (http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...-nidzilla.html), if you guys have any comments on it that would be great.
Also, does anyone know if it is worth getting "Imperial Armour 4: The Anphellian Project" if you already have "Imperial Armour: Apocalypse" and "Imperial Armour Update 2006"?
Last edited by Vesper; March 12th, 2008 at 06:23.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Is it pretty much the same deal with the other IA books? Is IA Update 2006 worthwhile, or does Apocalypse update its content as well? If the above are correct, are all of the IA books (baring the Apocalypse update) pretty much worthless for anything other than fluff?
It's my understanding that Apocalypse rules and books apply to Apocalypse only. So if you want to use a Trygon in a game under 3000 points, you use the rules from IA4. (Which, for the trygon, are way better than the Apocalypse rules.)