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Do we have a thread anywhere that discusses Ork tactics against various armies? Some armies like IG arent a big fear of mine, but I feel that Space Marine races of all kinds are insanely hard and that Orks will simply bounce off their annoying army. Necrons have a similar issue. Tau on the other hand aren't good in CC but their shooting capability means you're unlikely to ever get close enough to inflict any damage!
Basically a lot of armies have the upper hand to the Ork race so I reckon we need some race specific tactica on the forum for Orks if there isn't already. If there is, point me in the right direction!!
As far as I know - we do not have an up to date tactica around these forums. I for one would be happy to contribute to one (dibs on Biker Nobz article =P).
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
Well I've already set up a tactica in work in progress 40K that deals with specific units, so go find that one and post Nob Bikerz extensive tactics in there.
But yeah we could do with a race specific tactica as well!
I don't know about everyone else, but since the new codex came out, my record against marines has been (W/L/D): 3-1-1
Personally, I've been eating marines alive with powerklaws, rokkits and burna boyz. The orks have many ways of peeling through their armor, and the only catch is that since the marine leadership save is so good, they are unlikely to run from combat. This makes it important to win combat quickly, keep your boyz from running, and to field as many units of regular boyz as possible.
The best way to win combat quickly is to assault them, rather than vice-versa. The best ways to get the assault are with wauggghhhs (warp 'eads and Ghazghskull help with this), and by using trukks.
The best way to keep the boyz from running are to either use large numbers of boyz (although 30 is a bit excessive, I find that 20-25 work well, if you have a way of getting extra wauuuggghhhs), and using bosspoles. After some testing, I now include a bosspole with every unit of boyz. It's honestly more important than a red paint job, or any other option for the trukk/unit, save for special weapons (but only in units on foot).
Finally, the best way to field as many units of boyz as possible is to cut out the fat. Don't pay for upgrades on the trukks, don't give the nobz in the units of boyz special armor (they usually can only use it when they're the last ork alive anyway), and don't make the units any larger than they have to be in order to be effective. You don't need 15 lootas/tankbustas, or 8 nobz, or 12 warbikes, 30 ork boyz, or 3 warbuggies in a unit. 10 lootas/tankbustas, 6 nobz, 6-9 warbikes, 20-25 boyz, and 1 warbuggy per unit work about as well, for far less points.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: ork armies either win or lose through their boyz/nobs (with at least one powerklaw per unit of boyz/nobz). The other elite/fast/heavy/hq units are very important, but if you don't have enough boyz/nobz, you can't reliably win. In a competitive game, I always play 2 units of boyz (either in trukks, on foot, or a mix of both) in a 500 point game, and for every 500 points higher the game is, I add at least one more unit of boyz. In other words, in a 1500 point game, I'd use at least 4 units of boyz, and in a 2000 point game, I'd use at least 5.
Of course, in the last 1850 tournament I played, I used 6 units of trukk boyz, and I've made it to the finals. That's how good they are. ^_^
Last edited by mynameisgrax; March 21st, 2008 at 16:45. Reason: forgot one thing
Since the new book game out I only have 1 lost to Big Bugs, which surprises me a little. I don't really have many tactics, but hedge more on scoring units, and army comp to win. Its all based around the Power Klaw, and the fact that I can shoot decent enough, and swing my Klaws with confidence. I can post my list, and the rationalization for each unit, why its taken, and what its role is if its helpful. Me personally, I don't really have tactics other than my standard "always forward never backwards"
Dark Eldar 2-0-0
40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)
You'll have to excuse me if I de-rail the topic for one moment, but I wanted to reply directly to MouseC112's post.
Not only have I had a lot of success with orks, but a lot of people I know have, which makes me wonder how things will change when 5th edition comes out. I'm beginning to wonder if the orks were designed with the new rules in mind, so some of the inherent weaknesses of the army are not obvious yet, as they don't have the limits of 5th edition.
From what I hear, four new rules are going to greatly affect the way ork armies are played:
1. Independent characters can be targeted as normal, and automatically join the nearest unit within 2in at the start of every turn, if there is a unit that close.
The big mek, either with SAG or KFF no longer will be able to hide behind your lines. Either everyone will be able to shoot him directly (vehicles won't even need to make a check), or he'll have to be part of a unit. Of course, you can keep him hidden behind your other troops, but that poses a problem for the SAG...
2. All units block line of sight for similar sized units. In other words, if you have a unit of boyz in front of your SAG or Lootas, the SAG and Lootas can't fire through them.
This is going to cut down on the number of shots the orks can put out, unless you spread them out really wide. Heavy units in all armies aren't going to be able to sit and shoot nearly as easily, and I think this will turn the favor over to vehicles with lots of guns. Or it would, if it weren't for...
3. Only weapons with strength 4 and below are considered 'defensive weapons'.
This means that ork vehicles will only be able to fire a single weapon when moving, as they have no vehicle mounted weapon with strength lower than 5. You can still cover that battlewagon in big shootas, it just won't be able to move and fire more than one of them. Of course, this new weakness for vehicles is more than made up with a new advantage...
4. Glancing hits can no longer get a result higher than 'immobilized' on the vehicle damage chart.
This is going to make armor 14 vehicles a lot more powerful, and make the rokkit toting orks more than a little uncomfortable. If your opponent is using a land raider or monolith, your rokkits can only do glancing hits to it. Basically glancing hits are going to be: 1-3 shaken, 4 stunned, 5 weapon destroyed and 6 immobilized. Half your hits on the 14/14/14 vehicle will only keep it from shooting, and you need a result of 5 or 6 at least 5-6 times! Statistically, this means you'll need somewhere along the lines of 15-18 glancing hits to completely destroy it. I think powerklaws, tankbusta bombs, kustom mega blastas and SAGs are going to become a lot more popular soon.
So what's this mean? I think our orks are getting advantages they aren't supposed to have, and will soon lose. Before we know it, only our front line will be able to shoot, no ork will be able to hide in back (not if it wants to shoot anything, anyway), our vehicles are going to only fire once while moving (I better convert up that dethrolla soon), and our rokkits are going to bounce off the front of the tougher tanks like beer bottles thrown at a wall.
So come on guys, let's make the most of it while it lasts. ^_^
Well I just played a small 500pt game with Orks vs Chaos Marines for the first test run of Orks using the following:
Big Mek with SAG
12 Ork Boyz with Nob/PK/Bosspole in Trukk with RPJ
22 Ork Shootas inc Nob/PK/Bosspole and 2 x Rocket Launchers
3 x Warbikes
Result was a massacre of Chaos Marines, the elite of the elite could not cope with the sheer amount of dice been thrown for assault or shoota fire. However 3+ and 2+ saves are annoying and I think Burna Boys are my next main addition for the list rather than Lootas.
This post has gone way off topic, but I'm not one to make waves =P so @ Grax.
Points 1+2.) Both of these points are true, but imo a Mek w/SAG is one of our least effective HQ's. Warbosses are retardedly low-costed for the pain they can bring and Weirdboyz are the staple of footsloggers - the SAG is funny, but not really a game winner.
3.) Again you're right... and this is just balls. Should have been str5 imo, but at least this will be effecting everyone - kinda changing the way vehicles are used in general.
4.) Here's the chart I've seen for vehicle damage in the new rulebook
3 Weapon Destroyed
5 Vehicle Destroyed
6 Vehicle Explodes
-2 For Glancing Hits
-1 For 'AP-' Weapons
+1 For 'AP1' Weapons
+1 For Open Topped Targets
And a couple other rules Grax missed....
-Durring the shooting phase any 'Infantry' unit may Run. A unit that Runs moves d6" in the direction of its choice, ignoring difficult terrain, but that unit may not shoot or assualt that turn.
-Powerfist wielding characters will no longer get an extra attack for having an off-hand weapon.
-And the biggest, most purely awesome new rules.... engagement, casualty removal and wound allocation.
First, wound allocation. Simply put, all wounds a unit suffers (from shooting or melee) must be allocated to specific models before saves are made - potentially weeding out heavy/assualt weapons, powerfists, and the like. Givens Orks numerical superiority, this is a big advantage for us over most other armies in the game.
Second, casualty removal. Wounds can be removed from anywhere in a unit as long as the correct equipment/special models (as per the wound allocation) are also removed. This means, you can always remove models from the back of your unit regardless as to whether they were in range of a firing enemy squad or in the base contact/2" engagement zone of a melee.
And third, engagement itself. As everyone knows, models are considered to be 'engaged' if they are in base contact w/the enemy or within 2" of a model who is in base contact. This standard has not changed, but now models are counted as being engaged or not before any attacks are rolled by either side and their status as such will remain the same until the end of that round of combat regardless of enemy casualty removal. aka. no more sneaking out models killed by your boys in just the right way to deny your Klaw attacks...
Last edited by Courtsloth; March 21st, 2008 at 23:58.
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
Ouch! I didn't hear about the powerfists losing the extra attack, but that's more than made up for by the wound allocation, casualty removal rules. That's really sweet. ^_^
I forgot to mention that penetrating hits are becoming less deadly, as a 4 no longer destroys on a pen, and the immobilized/weapon destroyed results don't stun at the same time (unless it's in the description, but not the chart). This will swing the favor to vehicles even more than it is already. I guess they felt they weren't selling enough tanks.
=P so @ Grax? I understand the =P and Grax, but the 'so @' is confusing me. :rofl
Anyway, to get this back on topic...
Anyway, I really like the list you've posted, and I would use it as is. The only suggestion I can make is that you might want to consider using 2 Killa Kans w/big shootas, or 2 warbuggies, rather than 3 bikes. The bikes will have to make a leadership save after one is dead, but you can field the killa kans and warbuggies in individual units of one per unit, and if one dies, the other can go on regardless. If you decide to go with the warbuggies, I'd consider giving them rokkits, and give the unit of shoota boyz big shootas instead, as the warbuggies will make better use of them, considering they can easily move to get side armor. Of course, I'd only take away the shoota boyz rokkits if you were going to give the same rokkits to another unit.
These suggestions definitely are not mandatory, and the list can work perfectly fine as it is, but I just thought I'd recommend it.
Yeah I'm aware of the issue with 3 bikes, unfortunately I don't have any other models like Kans and Buggies - I never really want to use Kans/DeffDreads if i can help coz everyone uses them.
Buggies I'd like to get its just so hard to find em cheap or obtain the parts to convert. Hence I've been interested if people know how to convert bikes/trukks together to make buggies.
I wasn't intending to use Burnas in 500 points, no no no, but soon I gotta reach 1000 so they were intended for that. Not to mention we've played some practice Apocalyspe games (still only 2000 a side 2 v 2 but its still fun) so the more models I get in general the better. A mate is building me a stompa which should be fun! :-)