Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Do Warbuggies block line of sight to Trucks and looted wagons? Why?
They're vehicles - all vehicles block LOS.
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
Courtsloth, the way you called it seems to be the customary means throughout tournaments and games I played. Up until recently I would say I agree.
However, I posted this question in light of the wording in the rulebook, page 20. After reading these rules (and trying not to cut-n-paste phrases directly from the rulebook), I understand that vehicles block line of sight...but only to the extent you cannot "eye" the target vehicle through the intervening buggy. The current rules require you to "eye" line of sight from the shooting model to the target model except when dealing with area terrain and HTH combat. According to the rulebook, vehicles block LOS being drawn through them but not drawn over or past them. See the rulebook and let me know if GW clarified this in a FAQ or other venue.
This is a question of much debate, and I would love to hear other input. This also applies to Killa Kanz, who stand on a pretty wide base relative to their size.
Esellechris is right in that the rulebook refers to vehicles as LOS draws. Vehicles are level 3 in height, but they are not Area Terrain, so it is a tough call.
I'd love to hear the rationale for HOW they block LoS to vehicles of a larger size behind them.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Vehicles block line of sight through them (I believe monstrous creatures do this too). However, if an even larger vehicle sits behind them that you can see, you can target that one, although I'd imagine it receives obscured status. The same goes for if you have one vehicle, and a longer one behind it such that you can still see some sides of the rearmost vehicle.
This was huge in 3rd edition as buggies were essentially identical in size to a trukk so you could have your cheap buggy screening your very important trukk boy squad. This no longer is the case as buggies are much smaller than the current trukks, in both length and height. There are currently players who refuse to use the newer trukks simply because they have a larger footprint, yet this strikes me as bordering on the level of cheating. The current GW proposed model should always be the maxim in terms of size, so to intentionally use an older model to avoid fire just doesn't cut it. Either buff up your current trukks or turn them into buggies.
I couldn't agree more w/ your trukk size comment, Gorfang.
There's a local Ork player who I've played against often w/ my 'Nids, and he does that knowing that it is cheese. Even goes so far as to hide his old trukks behind his 2 "new" trukks.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
I'm going to have to be wishy washy and half agree with Gorfang.
I agree that there should be a specific size range set for every vehicle. There's a lot of confusion going around right now as to what counts as a battlewagon, how large a trukk has to be, and so forth.
On the other hand, I don't like the idea of vehicles becoming obsolete. I currently own 5 of the old trukks and there's no way I'm turning them into buggies and spending $150 on newer ones.
Obviously, these two opinions are in direct conflict with each other, but unless a $150 gift certificate drops in my lap, I'm keeping my old trukks.
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
I basically ask that he takes one of his "new" trukks and places it in place of the old ones, if a LOS question ever arises. That seems a fair trade to me.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
There's a difference between not wanting to spend 150 on new models, and continuing to use a defunct tactic. If you use the 5 small trukks that's fine. If you still use a buggy to block their line of sight, I disapprove. Until last week I still only had 1 of the new trukks built, and was using 2 older trukks as well, but I never used screening tactics with them. However, now I have 2 more new trukks built (thank you battleforces!) so it shouldn't be an issue.
On the issue of battlewagons and looted wagons: there is currently no Games Workshop defined size for these models, so you are pretty much free to craft your vehicle as you see fit. The general consensus is that looted wagons should be about the same size as a rhino or chimera STC (standard template construct. Did I go too much into fluff there?) simply due to armament and armor value. Likewise, a battlewagon tends to be based around a land raider due to its troop carrying capacity and armor value. Things get a little iffy when you start looking at the leman russ: it's larger than a rhino, and has better armor, but it's definitely too small to fit 12 boyz and a large cannon on top. My personal opinion would be to count it as a looted wagon with 'ard top, but I'd allow it to be a battlewagon with a killkannon so long as my opponent (or myself for that matter) didn't also use it as a transport.
The other issues with proper sizes for these two vehicles, and all others, is simply that 40k is not a to-scale game. Nearly every vehicle is too small for its options, due to either cost, realistic expectations for crew/equipment/ammunition/transportation, and whatnot, so it would be unrealistic to expect orks to be the one army with enormous 'to scale' vehicles. Besides, simply look at the size of weapons in the game and you'll see that the game has taken artistic liberties. For simplicity sake: If it looks right by you, and feels as if it fits in with the 40k universe, it's a good 'un. Don't go crazy trying to pack in every model onto a transport gorkamorka style.
Tell me where in the rulebook size catagories matter for anything but drawing line of sight over area terrain. The answer is that they don't. Size 3 vehicles may be designated as size 3 but that only matters for area terrain los. So just draw line of sight over or around it. There is not magic cylinder in there anywhere. We had a HUGE debate on this topic some while back and while what I said is a pretty major paraphrase it's the way it works.
I don't know what size catagory the wreck becomes if it explodes though. Thats a different talk all togeather.
Last edited by washout; March 24th, 2008 at 21:50.