Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
AS the title says, I found myself sitting and thinking about the role of a sniperfex and why the build is so common.
Now i'm new to using nids, i've been an Eldar player for so long but it seems to break the "basic tennants" of weapon fitting.
Don't mix weapons for different targets: The Sniperfex is basically armed with a vehicle/MC buster and a light infantry killer. It just seems a bit of a waste to load up on such a weapon which carries a solid points-tag if all your really going to get is a weaker krak missile.
Don't give single shot weapons to low BS users and if you do take lots: Even with enhanced senses the Fex is hardly a crack shot yet you entrust it with such a weapon to face down foes most likely to field MC cracking armaments themselves.
This isn't a flame or a "sniperfex for noobs" post, I'm trying to get a feel for what people use these beasts for and whether my own plans for domination could be served by one, do you sit back in cover and tank-snipe and use the lurk ability to make sure you keep firing out of synapse? Or does it move forward with the horde firing but never quite charging?
I'm currently looking at 3 fex's in my 1500pts, one with venom/scythes combo for tankbusting and melee support, one with barbed/devourer combo for light infantry carnage and one pure CC Fex as a fire magnet and throwing into entrenched positions.
(Yes I know the Venom scythes is a split role but the talons are their as a cheap second weapon )
So i'm curious why does the sniperfex come up so often in lists? Or do you run a completely seperate fit?
The keynote is this:
2 Venom Cannon shots guarantee a hit per turn at BS3. That's a S10 shot, so a 50% chance to glance an AV14 vehicle, and better as you get lower. 100% chance to glance AV11 or AV10. 100% chance to penetrate AV10 open topped. Goes on and on.
The Barbed Strangler should NOT be thought of as a "Light Infantry Killer." I mean, are you kidding me? It's a STRENGTH EIGHT shot that (unlike the venom cannon) can penetrate targets.
This also means that against tightpacked light vehicles like in Ork Trukk lists, you can nick nearby vehicles with S4 hits (enough to glance if you roll well).
You can't lurk with monstrous creatures, but you keep it in cover and reliably keep enemy vehicles of any kind from shooting, with a good chance to kill them or significantly mess them up even if only with glances.
A trio of them is completely reliable, and something I don't go without in almost any list.
PS - The Strangler is more accurate than a Leman Russ Battlecannon, and the Venom Cannon is as likely to hit as a Tau Broadside's Railgun, with the upside that with a good rule you can hit twice.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
General Emerald Cat
I totally understand your misgivings about the Sniperfex. One of the reasons why it seems the weapon load out breaks the basic tennants of weapon fitting is that there aren't a lot of Tyranid shooting weapons that can penetrate vehicles. The only shooting weapon I know of is a Tyranid Warp Blast (which can only be given to Zoanthropes and Hive Tyrants). In addition this high Strength weapon only has a range of 18"
There are a few weapon load-outs for the Carnifex and here's why I choose the Sniperfex, armed with a Venom Cannon and Barbed Strangler:
1) Its probably best to say that shooting Carnifexes are better than CC ones. CC Carnifex are just to slow and most opponents learn to maneuver away from them or ignore them the first 1-2 turns. I always try to have my opponent think about what to shoot at. I want him to consider every target as dangerous and make him pay for whatever decision he makes. A shooting Carnifex gives me options from turn 1 all the way to turn 6
2) Both weapons on the Sniperfex have a max range of 36", which is twice the range of the Tyrant Warp Blast. The next closest weapon has a range of 24"
3) Biovores shoot weapons that have a range of 48", but they scatter. The weapon only has a small blast template profile and considered as Heavy Weapons. Because of this biovores aren't nearly as good as taking objectives since most likely they'll be placed in a defensive position.
4) Its true that the Carnifex has a low BS. In fact most of the Tyranids do. The only one with a better BS is the Hive Tyrant. If you gave the same weapons to the Hive Tyrant, you would shoot better and get better shots. However, the max strength I believe is STR 8 for a Hive Tyrant Venom Cannon. So you'd still need to roll 6s to penetrate A14 vehicles in the end.
5) With the exception of the Biovore, all of the Tyranid Weapons are classified as Assault. So suppose a Carnifex shoots at a Land Raider. If its within assault range, there's a statistical chance that it can immoblize the Land Raider, get 3 free monstorous creature hits and destroy it. Those who shoot Krak Missiles don't always get that opportunity.
6) As an extension of the previous point, the Carnifex is the only unit that can possibly destroy a Monolith by shooting to immobolize and assaulting it. I think the Monolith would still require you to roll 6s, but with the living metal rule the Carnifex is the only Tyranid unit that can destroy it when assaulting.
7) For rookie Tyranid players, especially ones who have played different armies, I always recommend altering your mindset - Don't think about destroying a vehicle when shooting with a Carnifex. Just try to shake/stun it to prevent it from shooting. Unlike tanks, a lascannon can conceivably destroy a vehicle with a single lucky penetrating hit. For Carnifexes, you have to cause 4 wounds. Plus you can't pin, or entangle a Carnifex. So if your Carnifex can shake a tank for 2-4 turns in a game, your opponent is forced to move it around like a rhino than a tank/beast killer.
As far as your 1500 list, I'd recommend at least 2 Sniperfexes, and 1 Dakkafex. 2 Sniperfexes give you more reliable tank busting power for Tyranids. While the Dakkfex gives you great infantry killing power. You could easily spend the rest of the points on melee units and be competitive.
I don't have a problem with your Mixed Carnifex (VC/Scything Talons) or your Commandofex (VC/TL Devouer). I actually like using a Commandofex in games less than 1000 points. Just know that each turn you'll have a tendency to use 50% of the Carnifexes potential.
Let me know if you have additional questions or need further clarification.
Last edited by RudyPicardo; March 27th, 2008 at 18:29.
Rudy Wilfred Picardo
Current Record (W/L/D) 143/112/60
Recent Battle - 1500 pt draw vs. IG player (mission: Seek And Destroy)
Eh? Since when?Originally Posted by MVBrandt
However, agreed for the most part. That Barbed Strangler is not a light infantry killer, look at the S as well as the AP.
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940
Two VC-shots will only hit 75 % of the time but that's just statistics, maybe MVB dices are nicer to him than mine are ;-) Maybe if you twinlinked them you could sort of "guarantee" a hit.... (94 %)
BS3 = 4+ to hit
Statistically you should hit 1 of every 2 shots, so you should get 1 hit per turn statistically, that's all.
Sure you can still roll a couple of 1-3's.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
BS3 and two shots means that 'statistically' you have a 1 in 4 chance of missing both times each round. So, 'statistically' you are going to do that at least once per game and you will also hit with both shots at least once. If you do your double miss in the first 1-2 turns of the game it could cost you a great deal.
Woah weird statistics.
If your chances are 1/2 and you roll 2 it's 2 x 1/2 = 1
You have a 25% chance to hit twice, a 50% chance to hit once, and a 25% chance to miss twice. 100%
You have a 25% chance to miss twice, and a 75% chance to hit at least once. 100%
So really, I guess it could be argued better than 50%, but 75% .... or am I getting overcomplicated/wrong here.
Whatever point is you get S10 hits and 50/50 S8 penetrate-able hits. Tank bustin' goodliness.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
you are both arguing the same point in the last two posts.
The major point is: Redundancy.
With redundancy you have a second carni sitting and waiting to take out the same target if need be. This raises your chances to 94% chance of a hit, and that is just with the venom cannon. When you factor in the barbed it gets a lot higher.
We are going to take a hit in 5th with the number of weapons that we have that only glance, but when that comes along then we will jump that hurdle
Dear Game Developer,Caps-Lock, its like cruise-control for AWESOMENESS!
Rock is cheese, Paper is just fine
WWP and other Dark Eldar how to
MVBrant's got his numbers right, might be easy to describe 75% as good but ive rolled like 10 1's out of 12 dice before so.... I dont trust numbers like that, I trust them in different way, like how many lil expendable gaunts I have left after get shot at.
Smite the enemy, thank the aillies!