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People seem to complain about Nidzilla forces being uber cheesy etc and can dish out a monstrous amount of fire power with the carnifexes, tyrants etc
But all tyranid weapons are at best AP4. So what makes them so s'posedly good? Since a marines player could simply take all the ranged hits with there 3+ saves (or better).
I'm considering a nids army but I've yet to be fully convinced.
Yea sure Marines have their 3+ power armour, but when you have to make 7-8 armour saves then some of them will die..
TMCs firepower doesnt give death-by-low-AP but death-by-multiple-armour-saves instead..
Personally I dislike the Nidzilla lists.. I dont think they're cheesy but I just dont think they are in tone with the swarm army which the Tyranids are..
Space Marine Chapter: White Knights
Imperial Guard: Viking Raiders
Tyranids Hive Fleet: Sabretooth
Well, for starters, it's not the AP4 weapons that you really have to worry about when running Marines against TMCs. It's the AP- weapon!
A Carnifex with two sets of twin-linked Devourers and Enhanced Senses gets 8 S6 shots at a 4+ to hit that reroll missed to-hits AND missed to-wound rolls. It's very likely to actually get 8 hits and 8 wounds from those shots (all coming from one model) thereby forcing 8 saves from a Marine player. Odds are he's going to fail some of those and lose at least a model or two from the shooting. It gets worse when you have a flying Tyrant equipped the same way...he gets TWELVE shots at S5 (with tox sacs) at a 3+ to hit with rerolls on both sets of rolls. That alone makes them quite nasty.
Moving on to the so-called 'Sniperfex'. Usually, they're equipped with a Barbed Strangler and a Venom Cannon. You get 1 shot from the BS and 2 shots from the VC. The BS is S8, can pen vehicles (or glance AV14), uses the 5" blast, AND causes pinning. Sure it's got a weak AP, but that's not the point. Again (as with the Devourers) it's about causing mass wounds and forcing your opponent to roll handfuls of dice thereby ensuring that those 1's and 2's inevitably come up.
The VC on the other hand gets you 2 shots at S10 that can only glance vehicles (unless open topped). The key here is the S10 part. An assault 2 S10 weapon has a really really good chance of instakilling nearly any infantry model you hit with it. That alone makes it worth while. The other use is vehicle suppression. Sure it only glances all the time, but popping tanks really isn't the role it was designed for. At S10, you're almost guaranteed to get a glance on anything you shoot at. Worst cast scenario after that is that you deny the enemy vehicle shooting in it's next turn, and with a Tyranid force that's a godsend. Trust me, as long as those vehicle mounted heavy bolters and autocannon/assault cannons aren't shooting then your Genestealers WILL have a chance to get closer and destroy, well, everything
The last benefit of the Sniperfex is range and staying power...36" isn't that bad at all. Sure there's stuff out there with more range (lascannons come to mind), but nothing else as durable. The odds don't favor it, but it's certainly feasible to pop a Land Raider with one lucky shot. That'll never happen with your Carnifex. 4 minimum to take it out, 5 if you pay for the upgrades, and that makes them infinitely more desirable than any simple 'tank'.
Thanks for bearing with me on this, and I hope I was able to at least in part convince you that a Tyranid army is worth fighting for and with
Last edited by staged_war1; April 5th, 2008 at 14:06.
You know that necessarily you DONT HAVE TO play Nidzilla. There are many different variants of Tyranid Armies, like: Swarm, Elite, ect., so REALLy consider Tyranids.
"What is Mercy? Does it taste Nice?" Hive Tyrant on Reth V
"Kill-kill! Death to the Enemies of the Horned Rat!" Warlord Bweekq at the Battle of Hrad
Of course it can be considered cheesy since it is such a good working concept. I mean, getting 3 x DakkaFexes, 3 x SniperFexes, 1 Dakka-Flyrant, 1 Dakka-Tyrant w a guard and 12 stealers in at 1500 points can put the hurt on most armies.
My main grip with Nidzilla list is that are a tad bit boring, they're not very fluffy and are only built to win therefore very common at tournaments.... But they are a powergamers dream.
The good thing is that they (Tyranids I mean) are amongst the most versatile army in 40K, you can actually more or less build them into any kind of force you want and don't forget the nice models, who can resist alien-looking bugs with lots of teeths and claws?
People complain about anything that can beat them, especially Marines.
Wow, a 100+ point model can kill ALMOST three marines in a single turn! Let's ignore the fact that said model has to be very close to shoot, and marines sergeants come with these little things called powerfists which can paste carnifexes in a single turn.
Fact is, running an assault army is quite difficult nowadays. With even standard rifles, our gaunts will be shot to pieces, then we have to assault into cover, which will either guarantee their destruction having to face I10 foes, or we'll have to use flesh hooks which increase gaunt prices.
So, we have to adapt. In this case, it's shooting the enemy up with so many weapons that the fact they're in cover is irrelevant.
A dakkafex can put out 8 shots. 4 hit, 2 more hit with reroll. Six hits, total. They'll wound MEQs on 2+, so we'll assume that all 6 wound. By the law of averages, that two dead marines, which are a quarter of the price of the dakkafex. The fact that standard tac squads can outshoot (lascannon, plasma) and out-CC (powerfist with X amount of ablative wounds) seems irrelevant.
In a competitive environment, the Godzilla list is pretty much our only competitive list to bring to tournament. Sure, there are some variations, like psychic choirs and genestealer hordes, but still.
Last, but not least, Godzilla armies are a helluva lot easier to paint than swarm armies. After playing Tyranids for three years, I STILL haven't finished painting all my gaunts--while my MCs are nice and purdy.
So the next time a Marine player whines about your Godzilla list, point out their assault cannon, drop pod, and ATSKNF rules.
"Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
There's nothing in the TMC list that makes it beardy. People just complain when a single option is taken ad nauseum. You will get flak even if it's thematic, unless of course it's just terrible. Take 6x30 gaunts and people go meh. Take 6 Carnifices and people complain. Likewise, max out on scout bikers and no one cares, but take 6 squads of devastators...hooboy. Oddly enough, there are some troops out there that people will complain about if they see too much (180 Ork Boyz anyone??) regardless of the fact that Troops are in theory the most basic and plentiful unit available to the race.
As stated above, it's the quantity of the fire nidzilla lists can throw out. Nids will never have decent AP on their ranged weapons, that's pretty much set in stone.
If you can, proxie in a few different tyranid lists before you decide to buy. You may find you enjoy a swarm army, a nidzilla army or some mixed list. Just remember that nids aren't your standard "stand and shoot out in the open and never move" type army. The learning curve on nids is a bit higher than space-marines.