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I was doing some # crunching on the SAG - partly because of the upcoming 5th ed changes to armor (and our subsequent difficulty to penetrate it w/shooting) - partly because it irritates me how often I see the SAG pop up in army lists around here (about 35% out of the last 2 pages). The SAG only has a 22% chance of hitting s9+ (including failure rate, not including deviations). Don't get me wrong, the SAG is fluffy and funny (I love blowing stuff up, mine or theirs) but I really can't bring myself to call it good, especially knowing it takes up a HQ slot (for which we have much better options). Someday, when my Ork collection peaks, I'll be happy as a clam to run a couple 2xSAG, Lootas, and Boom-wagon lists just for laughs, but (I'll admit it) I also like winning and I don't see the SAG pulling that off for me.
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
The SAG has a alright chance of killing light vehicles, or anything if you're good at throwing double sixes. But I never view the SAG as a tank killing weapon, I use rockitt launchas, power klaws and hopefully soon some Tankbustas for that. The SAG is an infantry mass killer, with less scatter than a boom-wagon, can potentially insta kill something with Toughness 5 and has AP2 so wipes out anything without an invulnerable save anyway.
Its not perfect, but its pure Ork funkyness and a great addition to anti-infantry. To wipe out 5 Nurgle Plague Chaos Marines in one hit is to ask for an evening of moaning!
- at T4 troops it has a 72% chance to wound on a 2+.
- It has an 83% chance to wound on a 3+,
- It has a 91% chance to wound on a 4+.
Strength 8 and greater is not as common, only a 42% chance. Still it is very good at taking out elites, HQs and Dev squads. The odds of generating str8 or greater drop to 42% - which is not bad either.
The chance of generating a str 3 or lower is a only 8%. Overall I would call that useful.
You have a 2/3 chance of generating a good result and a 1/4 chance of generating a bad result. For orks I'll take those odds.
It's an un-targetable ordnance weapon for a just over 100 pts. It's not the most reliable gun orks have, but over the course of the game it should get a few shots off, and if a
shot destroys an expensive squad, it's all worth while. You only need to kill two terminators to earn its points back.
In fact comparing it to any ordnance weapon of similar cost is the SaG is very good value for the points cost. It's biggest drawback is it's need for LoS and the fact that come 5e your SaG will be targetable ( and it will get targeted, lol ).
With deviation, you're probably looking at a 15% of getting a strength 9 hit or better against a vehicle, with the SAG. The problem is, there really isn't a better strength 9+ gun.
A weirdboy has a 2/3 chance (roughly) of passing his psychic test, and a 1/6 chance of getting the the zzzap power. This gives him 1/9 odds, or 11%. Using a warp ead gives him 22%, but you run the risk of getting a disastrous power, and not being able to re-roll it.
Zzzap guns work well with big guns units, but they're highly susceptible to enemy shooting, even with extra crew.
I have the feeling that with the 5th edition rules, there simply won't be a good option for shooting AR 14. The answer is to assault them instead, but it will limit 'shooty' ork armies some bit.
This is part of what's been weighing on me - 5th ed will no longer afford the protection to independent characters that 4th does and will will bring back unit screening.
As for the SAG as a troop killer... we have dozens of those that don't take up HQ slots - in fact the only thing that doesn't qualify as such in the entire book, off the top of my head, are gretchin...
Two's to kill. Ahh, sweet sweet music.
This is true, but we have very little in the army that is truly effective against something a 2+ armour save en masse. The hidden power klaw is effective against terminators, as are burnas, but you are potentially looking at taking a lot of casualties to kill your opponent. Especially consider assault terminators with lightning claws versus burnas or anything else. The strike first with multiple attacks with re-roll to hits. If you're up against a decent number of these guys the kill zone stands a good chance of being cleared before you even get to attack. The SAG gives a rare alternative for taking these units down to size a little before engagement so as to minimize your own casualties. It will also allow for a long range. (the longest in the codex), shot at devistators or any other fire support unit, giving you the chance to take them out early in the game to save you from many wounds due to their shooting, and will do that damage with a greater likelihood than anything else availiable.As for the SAG as a troop killer... we have dozens of those that don't take up HQ slots - in fact the only thing that doesn't qualify as such in the entire book, off the top of my head, are gretchin...
Yes, the SAG is not an ideal weapon, but complaining about it is kind of like complaining about the food and drink available on a life raft. It's the best the orks have in the ways of ordnance/anti-armor. The looted wagon w/boomgun also works, but it's only 36in range, and can be destroyed by heavy bolters/big shootas, which are also 36in range.
Don't like the SAG? Then have a plan to take down AR 14 that doesn't involve shooting. After 5th edition comes out, rokkits aren't going to be enough anymore.
Also, it was said that they 'take up an HQ slot' as if it's a bad thing. I'd rather lose an HQ slot than lose a Heavy or Elite choice. What were you going to use the other slot for? I don't know about you, but my lists only really need a single close combat focused HQ.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; April 7th, 2008 at 20:27. Reason: forgot one thing
That's what Rokkits are for, get the Vehicle immobilzed and then mop it up in CC
What I meant was that they can no longer destroy tougher vehicles on their own. Actually, your example is perfect. The rokkits can set the tankbustas and PKs up for the kill, but they won't be able to do the job on their own, at least not easily at all. They won't be useless, however. Not by a long shot. You just need a backup plan, when your opponent rolls up a Land Raider or Monolith.
True, true! In 5th ed, moreso than 4th, for AT you won't be able to sit back with Tankbustas and try and tank down AV 14 (or even 13 really). You will need to either run the Tankbustas up and shoot and charge in the same turn, thus making the Tankhammers more needed. Or have a Boyz squad with a PK near the target you are firing at.
In 5th Ed an Orks most reliable AT means will be CC. Which means while the new Ork Dex brought back competitive Shooty Orks, 5th Ed hinders them abit.