Welcome to Librarium Online!
While waiting for the FB vassal mod I thought I would dl the engine and have a poke around and get used to it. This means playing 40K if I want to play some people.
After some digging I found an out of date space marine codex from 1998 and the current tyranid one - looks like I'll be using tyranids then ^_^
I don't have the 40k rulebook so a lot of the rules are a little lost on me, but I've been having a flick through and looking at what is pretty and what would do well.
I love flying creatures in FB so I'm guessing they do well in 40k as well, so gargoyles look quite cool, esp with their special attack.
I know high strength doesn't modify armour saves in 40k like FB so are toxin sacs any good? I like the idea of s5 genestealers but I think maybe just giving them the extra attack would be a better option. More chance of rolling 6 for rending.
Speaking of genestealers these guys look great is there any reason not to have them form the main bulk of the core part of the army? Maybe some cheap gaunts to screen from early shooting while they scuttle toward the enemy?
I don't know what the rules for swarms are in 40k and I'm not going to fish for them either, but rippers look like a steal at their cost and a large unit of them could be useful, or maybe even two units?
Are these good ideas to write a list or am I totally lost?
Welcome to the Hivemind, hambey!!
One of the key things to remember about "ze nids" is that they are the most customizable of armies. So its mostly a matter of seeing what works best for you. Ya got some good train of thought already.
1. If ya like flying critters, consider some winged warriors or tyrant to support those gargoyles.
2. Toxin sacs aren't very necessary on stealers. Extra attacks can be nice, but usually just extended carapace and flesh hooks are all ya really need. Sometimes its even great to just pile on as many "naked" stealers as you can. Lotsa' choices...
3. Don't use rippers myself; but big broods of them(used correctly) can swamp enemy units for most of the game.
There's so much variation and choice with Tyranids. That's what I love about them. You'll have no problem finding plenty of good advice here on biomorph/symbiote loadouts.
Enjoy making lunch of your foes!;Y
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
First, I can't say that going to Nids or even 40k would be "the dark side" (cue respirator breathing).;Y But I will comment on your first impressions
Winged Creatures are cool, but difficult to model. The most common Winged unit will be a Winged Hive Tyrant. The two most common are a CC oriented one and a DakkaTryant (Winged Hive Tyrant with 2 TL Devourers). The DakkaTyrant is one of the most popular ones because it can launch 12 shots that re-rolls hits (twin-linked) and wounds (living ammunition)
I also love the Gargoyles. I own 12 that are built and 12 that are currently unbuilt. The Gargoyles are all metal, however. They can get expensive quickly, but I agree they are a good unit to have. It is considered an unusual choice for Fast Attack. The common choice is fielding Raveners with Rending Claws with Scything Talons.
As I've played a few Fantasy games, I can understand your confusion with strength affecting your opponent's saves. Toxin sacs are best used with Hive Tyrants and Warriors. Other units I'd consider would be the Brood Lord, Hormagaunts, and ripper swarms. Other than that, its rending and high number of attacks (instead not your higher strength) that will be more effective.
In regards to your comment "more chances of rolling 6s for rending) currently the rending attacks only mean something on the "To Hit" roll. Since the higher strength only affects the "To Wound" roll, it has no effect on rending. So once you roll a 6 on your "To Hit Roll" you're pretty much done and your opponent takes a wound or rolls an invulnerable save. I think in WHFB they have poison attacks and killing blow. The rending attack is similar to poison attack.
Genestealers are awesome and among the best troops units in the game. What makes them tricky is their price per unit, especially when you consider their save. A typical genestealer model costs around 20 points - that's the same as around 3-4 gaunts. While that may not mean much consider this: 8 genestealers = 32 spinegaunts. The 8 genestealers can only be taken as 1 unit. However 32 spinegaunts can be taken as 4 units of 8 (more scoring units) OR as a single unit of 32 spinegaunts (staying power for 1 unit).
Rippers are also nice, but suffer from 2 weaknesses
1) They don't count as scoring units
2) Synapse rules don't effect them. So even though a ripper swarm has 3 wounds per base. If a person with a STR 8 powerfist scores just one wound, that's one dead base and NOT one wound. (due to instant death rules)
As you start formulating lists, you'll want to keep in mind to try to fill out your entire Force Organization Chart. With the exception of your Monstorous Creatures. Zoanthrope, and Brood Lord, all your other units have crappy saves. So you want to fill out that FOC in order to give your opponent a tougher time killing off your entire army.
If you wish, I can send you two or three 1500 point lists for you to consider. I consider all three lists competitive. I obviously make this offer to you and anyone that is reading this thread. Just understand that my office hours in the "real" world are erratic, so I may take 24-36 hours to respond.
Rudy Wilfred Picardo
Current Record (W/L/D) 143/112/60
Recent Battle - 1500 pt draw vs. IG player (mission: Seek And Destroy)
One thing to consider with genestealers. They will be the main focus of most of the incoming fire. "Screening" doesn't work very well as the opponent just needs to make a leadership test. Depending on the opponent, those tests are usually passed 80-90% of the time. Plus tons of foot-slogging genestealers are slow compaired to many of our other units. Plus they die very quickly to shooting if they don't have some kind of protection. (Use cover whenever possible with stealers.) The only time I'd consider taking a genestealer heavy list is for a cityfight game. I find that 2 units of stealers is more than enough for most games, if I take them at all.
In 5th edition (which hasn't come out yet), all rending rolls will be on the roll to wound. Makes genestealers a lot worse.
On the upside, you WILL be able to screen with other units in 5th.
The owner of the store i go to got an advance copy-printout thing.
It would probably be smart at this point to plan for 5th if you're getting a new army.
--Famous last words of Asmodean
My only advice that i think needs to be added is that the best think for you to buy would be the Battle for Macragge Box set. It will give you the full rule book (but smaller) pluse i think ten guants and six stealers. Oh and some cool terreain and space marines.
After that, try getting a the Battalion Box. Its also a great deal pluse I sure that you'll want all the models in that box.
And greetings to Tyranids.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
In case there was some confusion with my opening post, I don't actually plan on starting a nid army. Just play them on vassal so I will need to start thinking about lists.
Thanks for the replies so far
The most important thing you need to know when playing Nid's is that you need intimidation on your side. You want your enemy to think either "There's no way i can kill that many!" (Swarm Army) or "I can't kill that many MCs!" (Nidzilla army).
Two common types of lists, as stated above, are Swarm and Nidzilla. Swarm focuses around outnumbering your enemy greatly, using lots of rippers/gaunts as a distraction and rushing into CC.
Nidzilla is all about having tons of Monstrous Creatures (MC's). The typical list is 2 Hive Tyrants with either Twin Linked Devourers x2 or close combat weapons, 6 Carnifex's (Three with Twin linked Devourers x2 and Enhanced Senses, they cost under 115pts so they can be taken as Elite instead of Heavy Support, and 3 With Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, and Enhanced Senses), and 2 Squads of Gaunts or Genestealers to fill up the two required Troop choices.
Remember that many of your important units only have a 5+ save, and in 40k any shooty army will very easily gun that down. Don't be afraid to sacrifice attacks for durability. Extended Carapace is your friend. That being said, never put it on Gaunts/Hormagaunts. Those guys are meant to be cheap and expendable. I ussualy go with Adrenal Glands (Initiative Version) on Hormagaunts and Fleshborers/Spinefists on Gaunts.
Hope this helps.