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  1. #1
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    Dead Horse Beatings

    Powerfists vs. Monolith. Extra str added?

    Everything Ive read except for the piece in the FAQ on this site says no. The FAQ on this site says a possible understanding is as follows:

    "The 'Doubling scores' in the FAQ refers to Ork Super Stikk Bombs, because they doubled the result of the D6 before adding strength when penetrating i.e Str + (D6 x 2). Before the FAQ, Orks were capable of decimating Monoliths because of this 'doubling bonus', whilst every other race was penalized. The quoted wording is to clear this up, but as usual, GW isn't thorough enough to state this themselves. Also remember, this FAQ was before the RAW era

    Hence, 'Fists and Strength enhancing weaponry and gear is allowed, because it is still only Strength + single D6, the original intention of the Living Armour rule."

    GW Codex and FAQ say no, that excerpt says yes. Which is it?


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  3. #2
    Supreme Evil Overlord Dreachon's Avatar
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    189 (x8)

    You get no bonus penetration against the monolith, powerfist and dreadnough ccw do not provide a bonus to penetration, so they are un-affected by the living metal.

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    Yea I guess its how you read it. When I see "bonus to pen" I would see double str being a bonus to pen...but by wording Dreads and fists would be "bonus to str".

  5. #4
    ISIS Secret Agent Squishy mpdscott's Avatar
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    Would a model have a chance of damaging the Lith without the double-Strength effect of a Powerfist? No.
    The FAQ states quite explicitly, that "extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing". A model's Strength is a score. The Powerfist doubles that score. Therefore it is not included.
    Just because we use the term "stat" more often than "score" does not mean that is it not the case.
    Mysterious Member of the ANZAC Clan

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    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    191 (x3)

    Wait a second....

    "When attacking a monolith, extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing - don't count any bonus penetration of any sort against the monolith....."

    Strength is doubled with power fists. Why deosn't this apply.?

  7. #6
    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    191 (x3)

    mpdscott beat me to it....

  8. #7
    for good and for awesome! kore's Avatar
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    134 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by mpdscott View Post
    Would a model have a chance of damaging the Lith without the double-Strength effect of a Powerfist? No.
    The FAQ states quite explicitly, that "extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing". A model's Strength is a score. The Powerfist doubles that score. Therefore it is not included.
    Just because we use the term "stat" more often than "score" does not mean that is it not the case.
    I beg to differ. Substituting one word for another, thusly calling it arbitrary, is not an acceptable arguement. They are not the same. A score may be tallied and a statistic may be fixed. These are loose attributes of the words but it is sufficient to point out that they aren't the same.

    Doubling scores would be those that require rolling a D6 and then doubling it as an action.

    Furthermore, Living Metal prohibits extra penetration. This refers to bonuses to penetration specifically. Powerfists and DCCWs are Strength modifiers. The Strength statistic, for models equipped with such devices, is fixed, most notibly in the profiles of Dreadnoughts.

    The process of determining penetration involves adding Strength (whatever it may be) to a roll for penetration. Living Metal, in all the examples it lists, refers to equipment that give bonuses specifically to penetration. Penetration, being a fluid number, is calculated when required and is prevented from getting bonuses. It decribes the special properties a weapon gets towards penetrating armour, above and beyond its base Strength.

    Strength is a static number. One certainly wouldn't deny a model with a natural S10 from using its value. Similarly, a model with a PF, and more obviously the Dreadnought that has representation in its stat-line, have base Strength values to which are added to their penetration.
    Last edited by kore; April 12th, 2008 at 04:46.
    Karmoon: "well.. any kore = good kore" 12:35pm PST 23 May 2007


  9. #8
    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    191 (x3)

    Under weapon Skill pg 12

    "The higher the score , the more likely the warrior will land blows on a close Combat opponent. "

    "score" is sited in several other paragraphs on the page, including BS and I.

    Strength is a score, Penetration is the Strength score doubled when using a powerfist, thus ANY bonus penatation (the double score from 4 to 8 is Void). Because any bonus penetration of any sort is not counted.

    "the only exception is the vindicare assassin's tourbo penetration round."

  10. #9
    ISIS Secret Agent Squishy mpdscott's Avatar
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    332 (x7)

    Quote Originally Posted by kore View Post
    I beg to differ. Substituting one word for another, thusly calling it arbitrary, is not an acceptable arguement. They are not the same. A score may be tallied and a statistic may be fixed. These are loose attributes of the words but it is sufficient to point out that they aren't the same.
    Please cite a case where GW has been 100% consistant with any terminology...
    Mysterious Member of the ANZAC Clan

  11. #10
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    *sigh*... Its a No for the PF bonus vs a lith.

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