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Hey guys, Necron player here with a quick question.
My ork player buddy and I have been fiddling around with apples-to-apples battles, just to see what the balance is like. A question came up about how many attacks boyz have.
Their base profile says they have a choppa and a slugga. I took this to mean they get two attacks, three on the charge. My friend thinks that this means they get THREE attacks, FOUR on the charge, because it's 2 base, +1 second CC weapon. My argument is that this makes them horribly unbalanced, especially when you exchange their base weapons for a shoota and they still get three attacks on the charge AND Furious Charge. 60 orks vs. 20 necrons (360 points, no nobz, rokkits, etc.) always results in a slaughter, even starting 30 inches apart. It's not a tactica thing at this point, it's a base balance issue.
Well orks have always had 2 basic attacks not sure why but it would to be far worst with the old choppa rules so in my opinion they have been toned down. They wear t-shirts for armour and there only defence is t4 so i think orks are more toned down than ever.
Toned down or not, it's pretty unbalanced.
If you look at the Ork codex it tells you that a slugga boy gets 2 attacks and has a choppa and a slugga. It also tells you that a shoota boy gets 2 attacks and has a shoota. So it is only common sense that you add the attack and for gear. The thing that you necron players pay for is your ridiculous armor save, your self resurrecting units, and your rending rifles. You don't think that's fair?....
kudos to your Ork buddy, I hope he beats you every time.
As far as the reasoning behind the amount of attacks they get if you read about them, they have some great fiction sometimes, they are nothing but barbaric and while space marines spend 20 hours a day learning to shoot flys of walls and share ammo and get botox injections Orks are kicking the crud out each other all day so they are pretty good at it. I like to think of the zombies out of 28 days later. "They are infected with rage."
I am sorry, randomtask, but your friend is right.
The two base attacks in combination with a second close combat weapon give 3 standard attacks to a Boy with slugga and choppa, so it makes four attacks when he charges.
The advantage of having that many attacks is balanced by the Orkz' low initiative and the low firing range of their pistol/slugga. When I fight Marines, I rely on every single one of my four attacks because
a) my Boyz don't do any damage until they are in close combat and
b) once in close combat, the Marines get to strike first, thinning out my number of Boyz within two inches close combat range, and therefore seriously limit my capacity to strike back.
If Boyz didn't have those four attacks on the charge, I wouldn't play them at all and just stay in the back and fire. If you worry about large Mobz of Boyz, direct your long range fire on them, make sure they need to charge units with a high initiative, and strictly apply the 2 inches rule as it's written in the rulebook.
"Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
Blood Angels 2nd Grail Guard Company
My friend AGREES with me on this point. We aren't playing these games as actual combat, we're running them as balance trials. It's not about him beating me. He prefers a balanced game more than an easy victory.
Yes, necrons have WBB and +3 armor saves, but we DO NOT have "rending rifles."
Gauss weaponry is simply guaranteed to wound on a to-wound roll of six. We wound ork boyz on fours ANYWAY. It doesn't rend, or do anything like that. Important against tanks, not against orkz.
Furthermore, on a side-by-side and one-on-one, yes a necron beats an ork every time, hands-down. However, you don't get just one ork for the price of one necron. You get three. So for a basic squad of ten Necrons, you get a full squad of THIRTY Orks. We have great saves, but the math is simply against us. Even if a squad of necrons kills half the orks attacking it on the approach, which is HIGHLY unlikely, we are destroyed in CC, WBB and armor taken into account.
I was asking here to see if this was an error on our part, or simply a balance issue. Your attitude is asinine.
Deadly against termies.
Last edited by Sammy the Squib; April 22nd, 2008 at 12:21.
The problem is that when you give Orks a shoota, their assault 2 at 18 inches gives them an extra punch that, despite their abysmal shooting, can really damage a necron player. Even if I only lose one or two units a turn, each one is a huge part of my force. Plus, on the charge they get +1 init, which allows them to go first against my terrible 2. Oh, and they're immune to psychology and are almost guaranteed to win combat AND outnumber me at least 2:1.
Applying the two inches rule doesn't really help much, as a smart player knows to position his troops so that they all get to attack.
I'm sure that against other armies, the battle is more balanced, but against necrons, orks will win every time. We've rolled this out quite a bit.
And as for your last bit of advice, while it's appreciated, we're not doing actual battles, just running balance tests. So far, we've determined that 180 points of necrons vs. 180 points of orks is simply unbalanced.
And I'm pretty sure it's just 'uge choppas.
Last edited by Sammy the Squib; April 22nd, 2008 at 12:23.
Orks do well against Necrons because Necrons have so few men, despite each man been really hard. But to say Orks are unbalanced couldn't be more wrong! Yes we got a lot of attacks on our basic boyz, but we can't punch through armour without a power klaw, our shooting hits on 5's which even using the shoota boyz will only wound so many times, we have no armour whatsoever and our initiative value even with FC doesn't beat most armies regardless. Plus after the charge our STR goes down to 3 which struggles against marine races of any kind.
Orks are nasty on the charge but we got more than enough weaknesses to counterbalance them. I say Orks are fairly balanced as they are. I had one friend moaning that my Big Mek with SAG was majorly overpowered as it was rolling quite well. But think of how easy it is for the gun to malfunction and kill half my army or the Mek itself? Its the random element that balances our good abilities.