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Considering Eldar at the moment.
Of all the armies, Eldar seems to possess the most options for variations/types of army lists. A gold mine of options. Except perhaps for Chaos, but one can hardly consider that *a* army, rather its a vast filthy miscellany of blasphemous daemonic scum.
It seems that the fire prism is mandatory and dark reapers are highly effective marine killers, how about falcons?
Oh and wraithlords and warwalkers. Pity walkers and falcons have inferior BS relative to fire prisms.
Now to fast attack: Shining spears look "cool", and they give the feel of flying cavalry (jousting), but at that pts cost and with weapons of THAT ap.
Vipers: They seem rather fragile as do swooping hawks. Warp Spiders look to be of questionable effectiveness.
"ai caramba". Just look at the HQ and elites choices.
The key agenda is this: -What would form a solid mandatory troop choice for the Eldar army: -Perhaps small units of Guardians with weapons platforms? Or dire avengers. Or both. Or scouts.
For a JetBike army, it'd probably Jetbikes.
PS Biel Tan, Saim Hann and Ulthwe colors are excellent. Does that red on the Saim Hann jetbikes in the codex look like pure blood red.
Last edited by ForthTheThunder; April 24th, 2008 at 03:11.
Yes I'm going to have to agree with you there bud. But there is a difference between our( Eldar) upgrades and the chaos, space marines etc upgrades. We have a large number of upgrades that usually work for a specific squad. ie Striking Scorps have stalker, shadowstrike, scorpion claw. Farseer can have 5 different physic abilites and runes.
While the Space Marines tend to mostly have upgrades that can be used with many different units. ie power weapons, power fists, flamers, etc.
Saim Hanm( not bothering for spelling ) obviously need jetbikes .
Yes we do have alot of HQ and Elites. But some of the HQ are not worth taking( cough Barroth). But while I'm on the Phoenix Lords, can somebody tell me if Asurman is worth that much points! I know he's good but to me he's just like an Exarch with a couple of coll more abilites. And TBH I don't think he's worth that much.
Dire avenegers are the most soild troop choise that we have. They are powerful, somewhat surviable, and able to kill everything infantry based. I even watched as a squad of 10 dire avengers bladestormed into terms and killed them.
Take Dire Avenegers, and the best set up is with bladestorm and duel catapults. If you are going against somehing more assualt based take the shimmershield and the defend power.
Eldar Craftworld Igsolus-Toc (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 3500+
Tyranids Hive Fleet Oceanus (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 WIP around 1600 points
I've always found that Eldar is one of the few armies that have units that specialise and don't really have any all rounders.
I would have to say that shining spears are potentially the best assault jetbike/bike unit in the game! Strength 6 power weapon attacks on the charge (can you say dead terminators).
I actually find that one of the worst units that to a degree is not worth taking are Autarchs. I know that I will get a lot of criticism for saying that but I am also a dark eldar player and an archon makes a mockery of them... that being said one on a jetbike with a laser lance is quite nice...
From my experience with Eldar I've found that for a solid core of an army there are two ways that you can go... Guardians or Dire Avengers. Dire Avengers are awsome and give even marines a run for their money in a firefight. While guardian can swarm enemies and have acess to those lovely weapon platforms.
I would have to say that you should never discount some of the other Fact attack units as well... although I would say that I would rather a unit of warp spiders to a unit of swooping hawks although they both have their strengths and weakesses. And Vypers are great they are effectivly a space marine land speeder although they have a reduced BS yet they have a range of weapons that they can take...
Falcons are awesome IMHO they can transport your small aspect squads... can be totally annoying to your oppoent to take down and they have some nice weapons to boot.
Anyway, enough of my rant...
There is nothing more annoying when your Wyches with Plasma Grenades get "Always strikes First" for their combat drugs!
Indeed the eldar are an army that offer myriad guises - and you'll find just as many opinions on what works as there are eldar generals! However, the main thing to remember with eldar is that they are an army of specialists - each unit has a specific role which they excell at and can often be overwhelmed when forced into another role (unlike Space Marines who are rather versatile in their uses). This means that as an army they have to be played to their strengths with each unit concentrating on their role and being used to support the other units. It can be hard to achieve first off, but when it clicks, it really, really, really, clicks.
As for the units you will likely get many different opinions - some people prefer certain units and play styles over others.
I'll run through, briefly, my thoughs on each of the units (lumping Phoenix Lords together for the sake of brevity).
Farseers - Arguably the most vital HQ unit available to eldar. Unlike most HQ units these guys should be used to support your army as a whole and not try to mix it up in close combat. Handy powers (for me) are Guide, Doom and Mind War. Think carefully about the role you want them to play in the army and this will help determine the powers (i.e. there is no point giving him Guide or Doom if he is accompanying a unit in a waveserpent). Also try and pick supporting powers (i.e. similar ranges etc).
Autarch - relatively usefull. The bonus to reserves can be quite handy, and they provide the eldar with some form of cc choice that can join other units. There are several good combos for this guy (have a look around the forums).
Avatar - Basically, what you see is what you get. A great big, fiery, avatar of a god of war. Rather slow and as such easy to avoid, but the inspiring presence is not to be understimated.
Phoenix Lords - Some good, some bad - the lack of invulnerable saves can really hurt most of these guys. Up to you
whether you want to take them really.
Striking Scorpions - Good anti-infantry/horde killers. Thanks to infiltrate they can start quite close to the enemy and are one of the most resilient CC aspects in the army. Use them to tarpit units and chew thre GEQ.
Fire Dragons - These guys are awesome. Don't get fooled by their melta-guns (and short range) and fall into the trap of sending them tank hunting. Use them instead to mangle your oponents key units - there is not much that can stand up to a unit of 10 fire dragons suddenly deciding to have an impromptu barbeque.
Howling Banshees - The cc marine-killer aspect. Actually, their low strength makes marines a little difficult to kill, but 2 attacks each (and striking first in the first round) means that these power weapon toting women are rather painful. They can be fast (with fleet) and I use them in every list.
Harlequins - These have a huge reputation (not all of which I am convinced is deserved). The ability to have rending, as well as being hard to target, means that they are a dangerous unit - right up untill players learn how to shut them down. A lot more people can give you pointers on these guys.
Wraithguard - These guys are tough nuts, and their guns are absolute destruction in a barrel. Only downside is they are slow, stupid and have quite a short range. Still, damn near unkillable at times.
Guardians - Basic unit, basic stats, poor armour and poor range. can be made slightly more resilient with a warlock, but since the Dire Avengers have had a boost they have taken a back seat.
Dire Avengers - The new staple of the eldar army. Relatively good stats, mid range gun and the ability to throw out an awesome amount of shots - never leave home without a squad of them. Bladestorm is a must.
Rangers/Pathfinders - Rangers are kind of useless, especially when for 5 points more you can make them pathfinders. Pathfinders are the best snipers in the game. Quite a good chance of getting AP1, ignore terrain, increased cover save and infiltrate and scout - these guys eat terminators, TMC's etc for breakfast. A great psychological unit too.
Jetbikes - fast and annoying. I haven't used them much so I'm not really going to comment.
Vypers - good at being annoying, the low BS means that single shot weapons are wasted. Optimal payload is 2 shuriken cannons or a Scatter laser and shuriken cannon I do believe.
Shining Spears - great on the charge, even better with an Autarch. Rather expensive but can be really usefull. Good at destroying a unit that is already engaged.
Swooping Hawks - I love these guys (but seem to be in the minority). They are great tank hunters (haywire grenades) and a brillinat annoyance unit. Skyleap gives them almost limitless mobility and they are good at claiming last minute objectives, quarters, annoying units and generally running amok.
Warp Spiders - Solid gun, good armour save, good at taking down light vehicles and can be used (like hawks) to back up an assault or generally annoy. I don't use these as often (preferring hawks) but can see the use in them.
Falcon - the quintessential gun ship. Tough as nails and comes with a nasty reputation as being nigh unkillable. 3 in a list is considered rather bad form. Just don't run them into the middle of your opponents army and expect them to come out unscathed.
Wraithlord - Really tough, can lay down a fair bit of fire power, just don't be tempted by the wraithsword. 2 attacks means that they can be tied up quite easily in combat. Oh, and they need a seer or warlock nearby to stop them being stupid. Still, a solid choice. As with falcon, 3 in a list is considered bad form (unless playing Iyanden)
War Walker - They rock. Scatter laser all round for a ridiculous number of shots that are capable of rippng through light - medium vehicles. Just don't expect wonders with the AV10. Also handy for tying units up in assault, especially s3 ones that can't hurt them.
Dark Reapers - Quite good at killing marines. Unfortunately, most marine players know this and will target them with a ridiculous amount of their force. Spending 200+ points on 5 guys with a t3 only to watch them get taken down by overwhelming firepower can be a little disheartening. Learn to set up fire lines and protect them.
Fire Prism - a lot of people swear by them, i don't use them. Sure the ability to link shots is great (and fluffly) but you really have to stop and ask yourself is it really worth the points? Can be quite good against certain things, but I generally like to spend points elsewhere.
So there you have my opinion on units in the eldar army - hope it helps somewhat.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
DAMN! I ONLY JUST REALISED THAT FIRE PRISMS NOW HAVE BS4!
I just presumed they still had bs3. I'd probably have considered taking them more if i knew. Silly me, that must have been the only the thing in the book i havn't looked at and i thought i knew eldar so well. Although I prefer not to use vehicles but I might be tempted one day.
Yeah avatar is good, I use him so much i barely ever have to take leaderships. I keep everyone within 12", apart from jetbikes and warpspiders.
I've found that an eldar list can look terrible on paper but if you really know how to use eldar it can still work very well. While if you have a great eldar list you still have to be very careful, it depends how you're going to use it. Its important with eldar to get the timing right and to use cover to your advantage, eldar are fragile. My eldar list only works well if i think of a plan after i've seen the enemies list, if i don't think about what i'm doing i'll loose. If he's an all assualt army i usually find they are very easy to deal with. If they are shooty I have problems but I can usually just about manage.
Last edited by DoctorDogmeat; April 24th, 2008 at 16:19.
Yes we have a lot of options, however you cant just pick and choose randomly like our chaos armies might be able to. The units have to work really well in concert with each other, the need to support and lead in what they do.
Prism is NOT mandatory, falcon are the more popular choice. They have more guns, more shots and are much more resilent, and they and transport.
Reapers are VERY good against MEQ, however because of that reason they traditional are the number 1 target to be charged.
While walkers and falcons have a lower BS then the prism, they both have a lot more gun options and a lot more shots.
Shining Spears: Worth every point. They can pretty much wipe out any high powered unit on the charge. Add that Autarch with bike/spear and its a pretty crazy unit. Add that fact that their T is higher because of the bike (which is one of eldar weaknesses) and the turbo boost, they are pretty tough as well. You might want to reread the entry as i think you missed the charging part of their lances.
Vypers/Hawks/Spiders: Vypers are a pretty well rounded choice. They might be fragile, but the fact that they are a fast skimmer helps them quite a bit. With 2 guns they can be resilient.
Hawks are the most debated unit for eldar. Some swear their whole army by them, some they are the worst unit we have (i am of the latter).
Spiders: The most versatile unit we have by far. They have good saves, loads of high strength shots, can move a lot in a turn, and can have a powerweapon on their exarch. They are the one unit that can do almost anything. They can pop rear/side armor with the high volume and strength of their shots. they can load up a high armor unit, or support an assault. They are the one unit i think everyone should be feilding.
HQ has been discussed, the farseer is the most popular
Troops: DA is the way to go, unless you have an avatar then tons of guardians might be a better option for a foot slogging army.
Hope this helps!
It takes only one well placed shot to destroy an army.
I'll plug for warpspiders. They are kind of like Dire Avengers, with more mobility, harder hitting guns and better armor. They can be monsters of the hit and fade, and despite the lack of AP, when you cause that many wounds, he will fail armor saves.
Dire Avengers are brutes, foot-slogging or air cavalry.
Harlequins and Shining spears are primo counter chargers or baby-sitters. Sure, your opponent will try and kill your shooting demon troops. Then they're stuck in place, the 'quins/spears charge, and there is crunching and screaming.
Also, Farseer's are perhaps the best HQ in the game. They're powers are excellent, and they are a force mulitplyer on specialist troops that are often plenty killy.
There are currently only two mandatory units in an eldar army.
One is the Farseer. Of course people will claim there are other effective HQ choices but in ANY eldar army I can guarantee a farseer would make it stronger. I usually try to avoid statements like that but this is one of those times.
The other, unfortunately, is Dire Avengers (I really don't like avengers, despite how good they are). They're a staple unit in almost every army, jetbikes being the only other option that can really fill up compulsory troops choices (although I suppose Guardian + Pathfinder is possible).
Generally when starting out people choose an army conforming to the ideals of one of the five major craftworlds.
Aspect Warriors in Transports (Biel-Tann)
Infantry/Heavy Support (Ulthwe)
Guns, guns and Harlequins (Alaitoc)
Mass Dire Avengers, Wraithlords and the Avatar (Iyanden)
Of these Biel-Tann is the most common. Often referred to as Mech Eldar. You'll have to find which style you like best.
As an example (and to advocate my version of eldar) I'd choose a more Ulthwe oriented army. Take plenty of Dire Avengers on the ground (about 20 should be good, maybe 30) and then load up on heavy support. War Walkers and either falcons, dark reapers or a pair of fire prism. Add in several vypers to take even more big guns and you have yourself an army. From there Harlequins are your best bet to compete in close combat as they can do amazing things on their own. I suppose shining spears could work though, I don't like them personally.
Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!
If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.
Or a combined army using Ulthwe farseers, Saim Hann fast vehicles, and Biel Tan Aspects and/or Alaitoc Rangers.
This would be symbolic in that the Eldar are a more or less united race, and seems to imply that the "best of everything" is combined to make a "perfect" army.