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How and for what purpose do you use your swooping hawks and your warp spiders. Do you use warp spiders for close combat and swooping hawks for shooting or something else?? I really need an answer.
Look at the FAQ's and tacticas.
Then look at each unit's capabilities. Do warp spiders have abilities that make them more effective in combat that another choice? What're their strengths?
I haven't yet had a desire to field hawks but I do field spiders en-mass and I like a squad of 8 (one of these being an exarch w/ dual DS, power blades, and withdraw) accompanied by an autarch w/ warp jump generator, fusion gun, mandiblasters, and power weapon. I usually finish off whatever they fire at, but on the occasion that some pesky marines are good at armor saves and passing LD, it's nice to have that extra punch to hand them 9 power weapon attacks. TAKE THAT YOU APE IN A SHELL!!!
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I wouldn't use swooping hawks, they would be quite useful against tyranids, shooting them falling back if the enemy got too near but thats it really.
I only play swooping hawks if I intend to see alot of land raiders and monotliths at a tourney or somthing. They fair well agaist ig and nids but not much else. Spiders on the other hand = awesome. Deepstrike always, JSJ, and will annihilate most specialized untis. They are great for objectives too.
Warp Spiders are best used to lure cc oriented troops in a dance of destruction. In a game against tyranids my warp spiders killed 2 squads of genestealers and half a squad of hormagaunts. Other uses include: popping transports in front of flanking da squads ready to bs the crap out of anything that comes out, deep striking by artillery and unloading. Side effects may include: rolling doubles and losing an expensive squad member, scattering off the board or into impassible terrain, your opponent complaining that Eldar are overpowered because his khorne berserkers can't reach your warp spiders, nausea, dizziness, headache, and increased bowel movement. Please consult your Farseer before you start an army list using Warp Spiders, if you experience crappy rolls, unlucky scatters, or trouble standing stop using Warp Spiders and consult your Farseer immediately.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left" Bertrand Russell
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.
as per harlequin, this is already well detailed
however, in short, spiders are a ubiquitous multi role unit, something almost unique for Eldar and as such very valuable
hawks are easy to kill, and somewhat less than lethal except for certain very contrived situations
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Once again it falls to me to be the voice for the underated hawks.
People will tell you time and again that hawks aren't worth it, that warp spiders are better, that hawks are useless and spiders are the best unit in the list. To these naysayers, I say in turn, NAY! Listen not to their biased opinion, their unrelenting and oft unfounded bile against these most noble of aspects. Instead I beseech you to cast your eye once more upon these proud warriors, give them the chance they so richly deserve. Study their weapons, their techniques, and then use them as one would a scalpel in the hands of a neurosurgeon.
Okay, flowery speech and frivolity aside, I pick hawks over spiders every single time. Why? Because they perform better for me. Because my opponents oftend don't know how to handle them (especially ones that are unfamiliar with my style). Because people dismiss them out of hand and relegate them to the bottom of the priority list. Because people don't understand how effective they are. Because they can kill any vehicle out there. Because people don't expect them.
Sure, their armour save is marginally less, their guns are weaker, and their PL is as handy as a toilet paper umbrella in a monsoon, but they have one thing that spiders don't. Flexability. Sure, spiders can have a chance against light vehicles, but hawks can down the heaviest armour with barely any fuss.
Sure spiders get a second jump (at the risk of losing a member of the squad) but Hawks get fleet. Infinately more useful and much, much safer.
Sure, Spiders can rip through guard - guess what - SO CAN HAWKS!
Hawks are, in my eyes and the eyes of my regular oponents, so much more dangerous than Spiders because no matter the target they can do a bit of damage. My mate who plays Sisters hates them because they are singularly responsible for the highest number of kills against his excorcist and other back line troops. He can't catch them (even with seraphim) and they rip through his tanks and claim objectives.
I'm not going to go into detail on how they should be used (as others have said this has been covered numerous times) but I will say this - show some imagination and individuality and use Hawks. Everyone includes spiders, but I haven't seem them do half the damage (either direct destruction or objective based) that my Hawks consistently do. I'm not saying that those who include Spiders aren't good (quite the opposite, a lot of talented players include them), but I am saying challenge yourself and learn to adapt. Hawks aren't a crutch unit, you can't lean on them when things go pear shaped(well, you can to a degree, but not much) - they have to be used with thought and calculation - something an Eldar General should always use.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
From experience i can say hawks are just not gonna be worth it. If i was using a unit to take down vehicles, i'd have more than likely already taken take the vehicles out with bright lances if i didn't then ok thats not bad, perfect for taking out monolithes but even then if the monolith does shoot at them which it should, then they will all die. To do this effectively you're gonna need more than 5 or they will get killed way too easily, therefor its putting too much points into a unit thats charging at a vehicle. You will be playing marines most of time and s3 guns, so few s3 guns are not going to do anything because you're not guard with loads of lasguns. I do like hawks, one of the first unit i started with but at the end of the day they're background and looks just arn't enough, warpspiders look better, they have massive guns, they are way cooler, they WARP, there is nothing better than warping, warping through buildings its just the best, flying is outdated. Eldar don't need hawks for anything but a particulary better chance of taking on a monolith, but you can ignore the monolith because necrons will phase out, just get in combat, eldar will outmatch them.
Last edited by DoctorDogmeat; April 29th, 2008 at 04:57.
Can I ask you then in what manner you were using the hawks? What was in the rest of the list? Who your opponent was? How you had them kitted out? What is your play style?
All these things have an impact on the effectiveness of a unit, especially in the eldar list where everything is a niche unit. I really can't tell, from the otherside of the world, how a unit will work for you without seeing first hand how you play the game.
If you want a no-brainer addition to an army than warp spiders will work wonders alongside 3 falcons and harliequins. If you prefer fluff or a challenge, I suggest hawks.
My list, for example, contains a single waveserpent at most. I have all the s6 weapons I could ever need. I don't spam out on lances, falcons, lords, prisms and I don't even own a harliequin. My army is based of the Biel-Tan Craftworld and I use my units in conjunction with each other. Each has a primary role and several secondary.
Fire Dragons, Primary target: Key Units, Secondary Target: Threatening units, Tertiary Target: Vehicles
Dire Avengers, Primary Target: Line Units, Secondary Target: Threatening units
Swooping Hawks: Primary Target: Support Vehicles, Secondary Target: Objectives, Tertiary Target: Isolated small squads.
From my experience, I can make Hawks work much easier than Spiders, just goes to show the vast difference in style. I run a unit of 8 with an Autarch. They have never failed me, and have won more games for me by claiming objectives at the last minute or reducing a unit below scoring than anything else. Sure, Spiders have oversised guns, but Hawks are faster.
Swooping Hawks have an effective charge range of 19-24". Meaning it is possible to get a first turn charge. The can deep strike multiple times (which makes the Warp Spiders singular deep strike somewhat redundant). And they do not die any easier than 3/4 of the other aspects. (admittedly, that's not saying much compared to a SM).
If you are using them to try and shoot squads of marines to death then you are not using them as they should be used.
To paraphrase from someones sig: VP's and kills don't win games, achieving objectives is what wins you the game. Hawks can achieve more objectives (in my experience) than spiders can.
Last edited by Exarch Thomo; April 29th, 2008 at 06:06.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon