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At the moment my group of mates like to do team games like 2 v 2 (1500-2000pt), or in rare cases even a 3 v 3 (2500pt etc) with players taking varying amounts of points.
These are good fun, but I feel the hardest bit besides working out a coherent strategy is knowing the best units to take when you kno who you're teaming with. For example last time I teamed with Dark Eldar vs a large Chaos army. The end result was a lost because the Dark Eldar just fell apart as they normally do and my attempt at a footslogger army with 3 massive squads, buggies and a Weirdboy suffered problems of its own. The weirdboy couldn't roll the Waaaghs and the Chaos overpowered Lash of Torment psyker power meant the whole squad got led into rapid fire range of multiple marine squads and got decimated! (does my head in that one Chaos player complains our Orks are undercosted......excuse me, our Orks die from scratches, your marines survive tonnes, have good guns and your Lash of Torment is 25 measly points on a LD 10 psyker - HA - if anything the Chaos are a bit undercosted).
Anyway back to the plot, rant over, , how do people design Ork lists for team games. What units tend to work well alongside particular armies? This Friday I got to team up with Dark Eldar and Chaos vs (i think) Necron and Tau and possibly Demonhunters. Talk about a diverse setup, but what advice could you give?
On a side note I'm glad that the Ork Tactica is receiving posts, but they are all from mynameisgrax. Does no one else have any input to add on particular units? Also what about army specific tactics, they would be useful too. Lets get that thread filled up nicely so it can become an official LO tactics thread! :-)
Last edited by farmergiles65; May 15th, 2008 at 13:50.
Yeah, let's see some other people post for a change. ^_^ Anyway, the units I've written on are the ones I have the most experience with. Everything else I haven't used enough to really give a solid opinion.
Anyway, as for team games, you really need to be the front wall for your DE player. Dark Eldar can be vicious, but they're highly susceptible to enemy fire, and despite their high initiative, can have a tough time against opponents with great saves, even in close combat.
It's easy to be the front wall at the start of the game, but what your DE friend needs is someone to be his front wall on all subsequent turns. I can see why you had trouble against Chaos. DE vehicles in front and orks slogging behind them is the wrong way around. Your orks need to be the ones in front, and the best way to do that is to be mechanized.
I'm not sure what you have to use, but I'd use a lot of trukks, perhaps a battlewagon, and some nob bikers to lead the charge. You'll take casualties, possibly even heavy casualties, but your friend won't, allowing them to get into close combat and deal with heavy armor. If they still ignore you and find a way to go for him, make them pay the price for that choice.
To put it another way, don't think of him as Dark Eldar, think of his forces as Nobz in trukks. They're fantastic in close combat, but they need to stay alive until they reach there.
I'm not sure how you set up last time, but instead of taking halves of the board, I'd put your forces in front across the field, with the DE troops behind you. I'd still try to stay behind cover whenever possible though, so your trukks don't all get blown up the first turn.
Of course, I'm assuming your partner uses raiders/ravagers, but footslogging DE aren't unheard of. If this is the case, just be sure to stay in front of him, at least at first, and you probably want to footslog as well, although trukks and nob bikers may still work, as long as you keep them in front.
It's up to you whether you want to match your partners tactics to make your force very powerful, or compliment them to make your force more versatile, but in any case, your troops need to be in front.
Hate to think my force is the cannon fodder!
Last time I think we did take halves....well actually it seemed more like i took 3/4 and he took 1/4, our tables are not huge, our mate likes his terrain, inc impassable terrain and I had to field 3 squads of 25+ boyz plus buggies! It wasn't easy!
I agree that the footslogger force didn't work well enough in that team game, unfortunately I only currently have 2 trucks and 1 looted wagon (which technically with WYSIWYG isn't open topped been a leman russ model). So I'd have to do a mixture of mech/foot troops, but yes 2 full slugga truck squads are a must. Got 6 bikers inc a Nob so I could feasibly field those as Nob Bikers, though the points cost would be nasty. Would any HQ choices be worth it? Only got a Weirdboy, a Warboss on foot and a Mek with SAG (they all fear my SAG!)
Ravagers I don't think I've seen them with, last time the DE player had a raider of troops, some other basic troops on foot and these weird guys on flying disc things - lol my knowledge of DE is pitiful as they never interested me as a force and even on Dawn of War I haven't gelled with them!
I recently had great success teaming up with my Ork skumgrod: LO Forum Link Just read my posts for our army lists and why they worked.
We knew we'd be up against at least one Lash army so we went Mechanized with the Ork player's buggies leading the charge and his trucks right behind and my Raiders 1 turn behind them. It's true he took the brunt of the assault and usually lost the most units but that's just the nature of how the strategy worked and boy did it work.
It sounds like your Dark Eldar teammate doesn't have a very effective list if he's using 'flying discs' which I'm guessing are Hellions? They are one of the worst DE units. He wants to run a Wych Cult and handle the anti-elite unit and anti-armor portion of your team while you focus on anti-troops with a little anti armor thrown in. Both of you should have an HQ able to take on other HQ's in single combat.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
I hate to diss your partner, but I have to agree with medic_4077, that doesn't sound like a very effective Dark Eldar force. Hellions are garbage...or are they on bikes? If they're on bikes, those are reavers, and can work nicely. If they're guys standing on floating platforms...they usually don't work out so well.
Only one raider? That's as risky as only using one trukk! Most dark eldar forces usually take three or more (depending on the army size), with one of them filled with either wyches or an HQ with a retinue. Dark Eldar on foot aren't bad, as long as they contain dark lances, which are essentially lascannons, or splinter cannons, which are nice assault guns. The only other effective DE strategy besides using plenty of raiders is using web way portals.
Two trukks? Ouch, you really should consider picking up at least a third, and the more, the better. You can usually find the older trukk models cheap on ebay, if you want. Of course...you could probably use the looted wagon as a converted trukk. I've done this before, and no one's minded. You'd have to check with the judges though, to make sure it's okay.
How many points do you have to work with, just for your side? If your opponent isn't using a lot of raiders, than you might have to provide most of the offensive power, and use your partner as backup. If this is the case, you definitely want to have nobz of some sort in the list, and biker nobz are the best kind...if you have the points for them.
It was the Hellions you speak of, and I wasn't impressed by them one bit. I think in that last game we had 750 points each to play with. I'm intending to get another 2 trucks at least, but despite having the old truck in spares I refuse to use it.....i mean look at the difference between the old and new ones size wise!
I think in this next game we'll have the same amount of points roughly to play with. If one doesnt turn up than obviously I can do more. The lash won't be an issue now as the opponent is Tau/Necron/Demonhunters (don't ask about the logistics of it all, we have to run with what we got!) So now the issue is decent shooting and some resilient elites.
I think the mechanized list is still going to work for you here. Does each partner have to follow the force org chart? If so then the Necron player's list will have to be 1 Lord and two Troops, that's all they can do with 500 points. Dark Lances insta kill Necrons iwth no WWB roll and are also perfect for Tau Tanks.
Archon w punisher, t-helm, p-grenades, t-rack, drugs, s-field
8 Wyches with grenades + succubus w Agonizer
3x 10 Warriors (2 darklances)
that still leaves 90 points left over for those hellions if he really wants them or three reaver bikes with blasters or Warp Beasts plus more upgraded gear on the wyches/raider etc.
Better yet show him this site and let's hear from him.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
Cant remember on the FO chart. I know we have to when we do our official team campaign, but for tonight it may not be the case. I'm intending to take a Mek with SAG anyway in order to have an effective pie template to counter the high saves across the board on their side.
Was thinking of my looted wagon becoming a Boomwagon for the same reason, though another feasible option was to transport burna boyz for countering the armour saves, or tankbustas to take down the saves. Hammerheads I doubt will be an issue as the Tau mate prefers sniper drones and stealthsuits, however I'm expecting him to field a broadside!
Well game didn't go great, but many reasons against us:
(1) orks + chaos x 2 vs necron/tau/demonhuntes -- basically assulat vs gunline army, we dead.
(2) chaos sat back behind cover (why) while orks advanced......oh dear
(3) enemy had too much cover to sit in (mass cover saves)
(4) luck of dice was majorly with them and agains tme (i have perpetual bad luck, believe me)
(5) couple of rules done wrong that wud have benefited me if done properly.
(6) basically no chance!
And who said Tau suck in CC? stealthsuits attack first, get good STR and fair attakcs, that dont suck against no armour orks. Thats a point the rule problem.
If 10 burnas charge a squad of stealthsuits with 4 in front rank and some others within 2 inches do the following apply?
(1) stealthsuits attack first for been stealthsuits?
(2) when suits kill 4 orks in front, do others within 2 inches not get to make any attacks?
If 2 is true thats dam stupid ruling, but otherwise i had to break 1st round when i cud have owned them
Last edited by farmergiles65; May 17th, 2008 at 01:08.
I'm not sure I get your question right, but that's how we play:
So, if your front row counts 4 Orkz and 6 more within 2 inches and the stealth suits happen to kill 7 of them as they attack, you can fight back with the remaining three.
- At the start of every close combat, we check the number of models within 2 inches of the front line. (that is 3 inches away from the enemy, if you are using 1 inch bases)
- We work out CC as normal, models with the higher initiative going first.
- Only the models within 2 inches can fight and can be beaten.
Edit: close combat will heavily change with the new ruleset anyway so you may just wait for the new book in stead of learning, unlearning and relearning how to resolve close combat.
Last edited by Parcival; May 17th, 2008 at 13:47.
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